HUMBLED GREATNESS: Dres

INTERVIEW KB Tindal

QUEENS, NEW YORK | DRES

The legendary Dres of Black Sheep and “The Choice Is Yours” fame talks about his love for Biz Markie and Black Rob, transitioning from the streets to the music industry, possibly regaining ownership of his master recordings after 30 years, never being invited to a BET award show, being the first Hip-Hop group on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, his new project and documentary with J Dilla titled Dilla and Dres, working with Stu Bangas and gaining his inspiration from Devastating Tito of the Fearless Four. Tap in and enjoy the ride as I chop it up with the legend himself.

VALIDATED: First, I want to say thank you for doing this. It's a pleasure to have a legend like yourself on my platform. What you brought to Hip-Hop is unquestionable. It's timeless. It stood the test of time. It's gonna continue to do that and I thank you for just being a part of this platform with me today, bro.

DRES: One love yourself. Thanks for having me on your show.

VALIDATED: What's your earliest memory of Hip-Hop culture?

DRES: My first cousin, X, he's maybe a year or two younger than me. X got some turntables, and I was visiting my grandmother's- He lived with my grandmother at the time. I'm over at my grandmother's house and my first cousin got some turntables. He had “Five Minutes of Funk” playing, and he had “AJ Scratch.” He just got them; he might have had them for a few days. We both tried to finesse these records. We finally were able to make a little sense. This is the first time I'm touching vinyl and the first time I'm on a turntable. I've heard what's available at the time, and that's resonating with me as well. But when I first tried to backspin a piece of vinyl, it was almost like learning how to hit a three pointer. You have to start to work up to that. I started to lay up for three, work your way back to the key so we can make shift, but we got to the point quickly, where we could teach each other in like, a day or so.

That's how intent we were on developing, on what this was. Not all your friends are gonna be able to tell you that they've got a backspin or have a conversation with you about vinyl. At that point it was real for me. I see what this is, and I want in, and I don't think I pursued it outright, whereas this is what I want to do, but I wanted to be able to hit a three pointer. I don't know if I'm playing NBA, but I do want to know how to hit a three point shot and when I go to the park I hit a three pointer in a cat's face, I might never play in the Garden. I will be nice for three. I looked at that standpoint, but as the time was young, Hip-Hop was young… not brand new but young. I was able to assert myself into a slot where it was and a lot of slots needed to be filled, and it was okay. I think, once Jay-Z said, there's a blueprint, I think he kind of signed off on following one. Prior to that, we'd cover it up. What our test is, you can't copy from me. Don't say my rhyme. I don’t want you to sound nothing like me.

VALIDATED: That was a straight violation back then.

DRES: We got on by sounding like, nobody, these days cats get on sounding like somebody. It is where the music is sounding monotonous. Because everybody's trying to follow the blueprint of the dollar as opposed to what their heart tells them about music. That’s what it is at the moment, hopefully, the limelight moves around. Things are happening fast. I can see the younger generation starting to weigh. Honestly the real young cats to whoever's current right now. They are older than them too. Now they're weighing old music as opposed to what cats said we were and what they said they were. Now we are on the same plate, and they are sampling it to see what tastes good and I know what we bring to the table.

VALIDATED: What were some of the challenges or sacrifices that you had to make back in the 80s or the 90s, when it came to you trying to get a deal? What did you have to go through?

DRES: To do a demo, I literally can just have a look. I had a little hustle prior to music. I always had jewelry and this and that and the other. When me and Lawnge decided to make a demo, the two-inch tape cost $200. Studio session minimal, was going to be $50 an hour. You might find a 16 track spot, maybe for a little less, maybe $30-40, but minimal a 2-inch spot- minimal $50 an hour. I pawn my jewelry and right there, I got the money for the jewelry. I gave half of it to Lawnge. I was like we are going to make a demo. We’ll give the demo to Red. All we needed was to nail it and see if we could have them help us move forward. We gave it to Red and Red was blown away. Red had an assistant by the name of Dave, Dave made a bunch of calls on our behalf to Rush, a bunch of different labels and we're taking meetings and out of all the meetings we took, it seemed like Polygram, which was primarily a Rock label at the time, they had just hired Lisa Cortex and Dave who were from Def Jam, and they were hungry for some Hip-Hop, and we would be their primary focus. It was better to me than being a small fish over at Def Jam.

VALIDATED: I heard you talk about that and Lyor didn't know your music and that didn't seem like it would be a great fit for you.

DRES: I don't know if I made the right decision, but it just didn't feel right, so I went with that. Sometimes in life, that's what it is. It just didn't feel right at the time. I don't know, if I just caught them in that moment, but it didn’t feel like something that I wanted to be standing next to. I was a fan. I guess that was the first time that I would meet situations or people that I've thought were one way and come to realize that they are not. You meet people you have a little adoration for, and sometimes you question them.

VALIDATED: People in the culture that are fans of Hip-Hop, and huge collectives, they always talk about, what Wu-Tang Clan did and how it was so monumental - and that's a fact because they had so many members, now, a lot of people often forget about the Native Tongues and how many groups were in that collective and how many artists were in that collective; which was massive at that time. What was it like being a part of that collective and how competitive were you all with each other back then?

DRES: It was amazing. I look back on those days so fondly. You got to realize that we're talking about some of the dopest artists in Hip-Hop history. A Tribe Called Quest, The Jungle Brothers, Queen Latifah. To be in that role is crazy. I found myself as a young artist in that room in that position where all of them are who they are, and we are trying to put it together. We were blessed to be embraced by them, and Lawnge met Red Alert years prior in North Carolina… Lawnge was my little man. Red Alert was all at home and Lawnge was cutting on the turntable, he was so small, he had to stand on milk crates to stand over the turntable. His name was shorty Doo Wop at the time. Red sees him and says “Where are you from?” He said “I'm from Brooklyn, but I live here now.

I come to New York every summer.” Red gave him his number and said “Next time you come to New York give me a shout.” He comes that summer, Red takes him to the studio, sits him down with Mike G and Afrika… the Jungle Brothers were working on their first album. Every summer Lawnge would come up and he develops a relationship with everybody else. When he graduates from high school, he comes up and this is what he wants to do. I had graduated a few years prior, I came back from New York was on my own doing a few things and some of them worked, some of them didn’t. But I am straightening my stuff out, and I'm moving forward and I'm working and coming from lunch one day… I'm in midtown Manhattan and who do I pass Mr. Lawnge from North Carolina.

He just got there to live, and he didn't have a stable situation, for a place to stay. I had just got an apartment, a 1 bedroom in the Bronx . It's kind of a bugged because you think of it now, you bump into somebody who you were cool with in high school, a few years after high school, you're not going to invite them to live with you. (Laughs)  There was something about Lawnge to me though, he was my little man. I didn't really know to the degree that he was entrenched in music at that moment. So that didn’t have anything to do with it, he was my little man. I was like come get on your feet. However long that’s what it is. We are good, we are solid.

The next week he comes. He brings his turntables and records. I was blown away, like you're still doing this. He's got four records in his pile, five records in his pile, three records in his pile, six records in his pile. I asked what each pile was for. He pulls it up, plays one record, it's a breakbeat, plays another record, just the bass that’s gonna go on it, pulls another record, this is the horns that’s gonna go on it. And each record represented a song. The records literally, at that moment in time one of the records was “Counting Sheep.”

We didn't have equipment. He's a DJ, all he had was turntables and records. But he had stacks of records, he had how it sounded in his head, and this is where we drew for our demo. And from our demo, “Counting Sheep” made it all the way to the album but that was on our demo, he was a genius to what he was capable of and necessity being the mother of creation. We didn't have equipment, but that didn't stop him from creating. That was the beginning of us. But for me that’s really when the wick got lit. The wicks got lit when my cousin had some turntables and some vinyl, and we tried to teach ourselves how to DJ.

VALIDATED: From our generation from the 80s and the 90s a lot of us are getting older and a lot of us are passing on. Recently, we lost Ecstasy, we lost DMX, we lost Black Rob, Prince Markie Dee, Shock G and the one and only Biz Markie. Do you have any memories of those artists? And if you do, what are they or did you just enjoy watching them perform their craft coming up?

DRES: All of them. Rob was my dude, me Rob and Chi hung out many nights when our records were out. Literally running around, wilding and laughing and all the above. It was a great time to be afforded. Biz was my dude; he was just so cool. Sitting and talking to Biz was hilarious. It was so many things at once. Biz was the person that would show his coloring book from third grade because he still had it. Biz was a special person in even how he thought. Dude asked you something that was so way over there but it had something to do with how he put together something in Hip-Hop why he asked you that. It might not even appear that way. But Biz was just diabolical. To know Biz, is to love him period. He was just such a cool dude and, it's my word, It still blows me away that some of the people we talk about know me by my first name. It blows me away because I was one of the last people in that Native Tongue door, like everybody was who they were.

I remember hustling and “Potholes In My Lawn” is playing on the corner out the box as we hustle. This is before I even met them.  I'm realizing their power. I think more than they did. I knew how powerful these guys were and I knew what they stood for. I was proud to be amongst them. And I also knew that I couldn't do it how they did. My mother had me at seventeen, my father was a heroin dealer, Nicky Barnes came from  Queens trying to recruit my father. My father turned him down, not to say that he was anything great. But when it was great, it was great - and when it was bad, it was bad. I knew both spectrums well. Those are things that you didn't get from my first album, but those are things that everybody else tried to make a record about.

I used to look at them and really have the understanding like that's not what you do when you are from there. Anybody that's going to have that walk, they are going to have that walk regardless of you saying what you're saying. It doesn't have to be in life. Ain’t nothing I can say that’s going to stop you. But if you're on the fence and I'm making it sound like I did something with my life from that, that’s a lie number one, two that's not even who we all are. I know, I grew up with it. I know what it looks like.  Yeah homie you aint it, I know what it is. I'm not worried about it. I come from it and you aint it. I’m chilling and I'm not bringing it. Thank God, I'm not bringing it.

VALIDATED: You could have, you did time at the halfway house, you never chose to speak about that in your music, because I'm assuming that you did that because you came from it. And you knew how real it was on that side. But that was something that you didn't need to project in your image, because you already knew that. That was already a part of you. What's one of the things that you took away from being incarcerated that you still carry with yourself to this day in life?

DRES: One of the main things that I carry to this day that has probably saved my life several times is a feeling that I had. That feeling was, it was New Year’s, so it said to be 87 or 88. I am in my cell, and it is snowing, and I'm looking out my cell, and where I'm at 1414, Hazen Street C-74, this is when Kool G Rap had the record out about Rikers Island.  It's real and I'm a young man, that has now become more than that because, Rikers isn't the place where, a lot of times cats have the mentality where, nobody bothers me, I'm not gonna bother anybody. It doesn't work like that. Once I peeped it, it didn't take anything for reality to hit really quick. It's strictly by rank. Let me see where I fit in, it is not like that. I started to become that and that’s not who I am. But I had to do what I had to do because that’s where I was.

I remember New Year's, and I'm sitting in my cell, and I remember saying to myself, and I meant it with all my heart. I'd rather be butt naked in Times Square right now than right here. This was the 80s I knew Times Square was poppin’- it's Times Square. I rather be in Times Square butt naked right now than be here. Because I know that tomorrow, I could figure it out. But I knew that tomorrow right here I will be just looking out the window. It was just the emptiest feeling and anytime I'm ever about to take a penitentiary chance that isn't calculated beyond belief and even then, I'm like nah man I’m good, that was good because all my bad days are better than that feeling. It is my way of life. God totally Blessed me that this October makes 30 years.

VALIDATED: That was my next question, I was about to go there.

DRES: It has been 30 years that I've been blessed to make a living being me. I could have never imagined that. I am beyond grateful for that. I'm not no top tier or anything. But I'm happy, I’m healthy, I have good people around me. I have my life and I'm selective these days about how I move as opposed to trying to find my way. I'm not trying to find my way. I'm trying to keep my way. I'm just trying to stay good.

VALIDATED: ‘Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.’ 30 years, October 22. Do you guys have anything planned publicly, what's going on to celebrate that milestone man?

DRES: A couple of things I'm looking to do but really simple, nothing over the top, to be honest. I’ve got a couple of things going on behind the scenes that have everything to do with 30 years. There are things that on the publishing side that happened after 30 years on the master side, I'm very much taking care of that stuff. That's a blessing in itself. The possibility of having total control of both entities after all these years, just because of statutes that exist, that some of us didn't even realize. Artists from the 90s really should know 30-35 years, there's a window where you can get your stuff back, but if you don't address it two years prior, it rolls over.

If you are from the 90s talk to somebody because it is real. We all got to handle our business, sometimes we didn't fill out the paperwork, because we didn't know, sometimes we didn’t register our song because we didn't know. We were just so glad to be in the room. There are so many things that goes on in the industry that we weren't really privileged to know. We were just glad to be there. Simple, quickly point out, when you get a deal, they tell you, you got eight to eleven points, now you don't know what that means, and you really don't ask. Eight to eleven points is eight to eleven percent. Eight to eleven points sound like you have a piece of something. You have eight to eleven percent of something that's 100%, which means roughly 92% to 89%  of some of your creation, that you do not even know is in existence. You're literally accumulating a fortune if you're making money. If you are making money for yourself, imagine how much those that are writing your checks are making. You buy into it, and you're so glad to sign off on a deal. I'm talking about 30 years ago. We weren't in the position that some of the kids are in today. They're in because of the leverage that our records made. I'm able to go back now and say I've accumulated a fortune for this label. Now the younger generation can look at what was done here and say this record sells this much, you've made this much. That knowledge wasn't available before. It's almost like we were guinea pigs. I feel like Black Sheep and the Native Tongues for that instance, some of us are better than others. But primarily we are the catalysts of what changed. We were some of the first ones that were allowed in middle America's home.

VALIDATED: My next question is based on exactly what you're saying. You guys were the first rap group to be on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. That's a huge milestone. If it wasn't for you guys, nobody would be on Jimmy Fallon or anybody else’s show today, unless you guys kicked down that door. How does that feel, being one of the first to do something that's still carrying over today for younger artists?

DRES: This is my word. It's dope. But I don't expect anyone to do anything for me. But I do pay attention. Little things like us being the first one to do that it never comes around like BET. I did so many shows on BET from Teen Summit, anytime they ever wanted me to do anything just send me over. I've never been invited to a BET award in my entire career. I have never been at a VH1 Hip-Hop award show and that’s my word, they probably play my record at the event. But I'm not that dude, I don’t look for anybody to do anything. It's just that we put so much energy in and when you do a late-night show, you might make $300. People look at you like you made it. But you are splitting $600 that's what it is. I don't know if it's negotiated or if it's something different today. But just to say I've never been to any of those things, anything affiliated with any thing that we really helped them to build. Not even an invite and like I said, I just meet people from MTV, from VH1 and I know, it's all kind of par for the course and I'm not trying to gripe. I'm 30 years in. I'm past griping. I'm good. But it's time to start speaking my mind. A lot of cats and a lot of companies call themselves a lot of things that I look at them and say not so much really, and not that you had to; but I can imagine if you ain't do it for me, and I know what I did, what are you going to do? I put myself in a position where I'm good, don’t get twisted. It would be nice to be amongst, but my life isn't contingent. I've got other things that keep me grounded. That doesn't make me who I am. As a matter of fact, I've got some amazing projects coming regardless. So that's what's up with me, I’m an advocate of showing you the difference, as opposed to telling you about the difference. I'm gonna show you what I do. They can judge for themselves.

VALIDATED: You released a ton of singles over the years as a solo artist, you got this new project coming out D&D, “Dilla & Dres.” Tell me a little bit about that. How did you get access to Dilla’s catalog of beats and everything and how did that project come about and what kind of features do you have on them? Do you have a release date for it yet?

DRES: No release date because right now we're putting together a documentary in conjunction with it. So, we're gonna release a documentary and an album together. I was trying to release a single off it before the top of the year, but it's looking like I'm just gonna release the project with the documentary next year. But in the interim, I've been working really hard lately, I decided to not sit on my hands while we're putting this together and there’s a lot of legalities when you're dealing with an estate.. It seems like for every inch that we try to move forward, there's something that needs to be addressed, lawyers and what not. It's been time taken and we're still filming as well on the documentary side. But the project is amazing and what happened was a cool story.

I met Dilla’s mom. I might have been in Chicago somewhere. I didn't have a relationship with Dilla like that. All the other Native Tongues They were best friends and they were cool with Dilla. I met him once in the past and that was it. When cats asked me, it might have been in Chicago, do you want to meet Dilla’s mom? Just out of respect. I said yes, bring her back because we were in the greenroom. He brought her back, she was with her husband, a brother by the name of Tony. Not Dilla’s dad, but who she married. Pleasure to meet them, they’re very nice people. I am letting them know, your son is so special. He was family to my family, which made him family. A month later, I'm doing a show in Puerto Rico… it was a charity event and I looked down. Who’s right there? Dilla’s mom and her husband. After the set, I go straight to them, talking with them. They told me they have a house in Puerto Rico, come by. I went to the house, they had some DJs over there, mom's cooking.

I was so glad I went over there. I'm literally in the kitchen with her while she's cooking and she's telling me about her son. I am like, wow, this is amazing. This time there are a few DJs from Puerto Rico there playing, spinning stuff, women in the yard and amazing food and just a great time. At the end of the night, she let me know, we just got back a lot of the rights under the umbrella of the estates and I'm looking for a few things to do with some of his music. Would you be interested in putting together a project, and I was blown away because if they were to let me get a track or a song or two that would have been amazing. But to create a project and y’all are gonna let me pick out tracks? I stopped everything I was doing and that became what I was doing. It became this journey whereas, I didn't know Dilla like that. I didn't know Dilla at all. I didn't know his catalog like that. I knew the joints he did for my friends and stuff, or if something was popular. Now I start diving into everything he's ever done on YouTube. I'm listening to every interview; I'm playing all the tracks. I'm asking my friends who are all Dilla heads, what's your favorite joints?  I'm listening to everybody's interview. It took me on this journey. I'm meeting his friends that I saw in interviews. I'm talking to other cats. Now I realized I need to get all that stuff done. Everything was kind of really organic, that the film company that did Chi-Ali’s documentary, called first. They reached out to me saying, you're doing this project with Dilla, we would love to film it. Thank you, universe. I went to Chi’s Premiere and his documentary is coming out on Netflix. It's amazing. 

I already know what they are capable of. They are down to do this, so we started that. The album is probably about 90% done. I found out that there's a couple of tracks that I'm going to have issues with so I am going to go ahead and revamp them and do what I have to do. I'm doing that and the interim as well while we are filming.The project has features  from Bun B to Freeway, to my man Alexander Simone who's the grandson of Nina Simone. Cory Gunz to Chuck D to CeeLo Green to Mysonne, to Del the Funky Homosapien… The project is poppin. Sauce Money, Chi-Ali’s is on it. It really is a special project and whenever it comes out, I just want it to be right. That’s why I'm kind of just slow walking because I want it to be right.  I don't want a misstep working with Dilla. Dilla’s tracks, some of them. like even in picking them like I didn't know which ones everybody heard and which ones a few people heard, or which ones nobody heard. Some of them are picked raw. Whereas I should have picked all the things that nobody really heard, but I didn't know. I just picked stuff that I liked. A few of them, I had to do a few different things, but that was just part of the process of making what I wanted. The project is amazing. It's an amazing project, it really is, and people are also going to hear me in a way that they've never heard me before. I definitely did a few different things on it, that people are going to be like, Oh, wow. It's something special, it really is… and I will let it speak for itself, when it comes.

It is special. I got some more special stuff that's coming before that album. Because what I decided to do, that project represented a lot of my time, a couple of years down there, especially with the COVID. I did it on my own with no company. I personally did that, I personally reached out to people that I have relationships with. I did everything that it took for me to put that album together. In putting the documentary together and all those legalities, it took a lot. I found myself sitting on my hands and that's not what I want this to be, I don't want to be sitting on my hands with all my eggs in one basket. There’s a bunch of dope producers out here. A lot of them are my friends that I've never worked with. So, what I've decided to do is do a series of EPs. Some of them are brand new, some young, some are real old friends that I've been kicking it with, some of them don't even know that I'm coming to get them in a second.

The two I am working with is a young cat by the name of Stu Bangas. He's dope, he’s out of Massachusetts, and a good friend of mine, that's one of the dopest producers. Every producer knows exactly who he is. But probably not a lot more. But every producer knows that Vitamin D is one of the dopest soulful cats in music, not even just Hip-Hop. He is an old friend, he’s a mentor of a young cat I have worked with for years. So, shout out to both of them. I'm doing an EP with him. But I'm not the only person that's doing it. There's a singer on it as well. The three of us are going to blow cat's minds with the EP we're doing- so I'm working on that EP while I'm working on an EP with Stu Bangas. I probably sketched out about four songs, I may do two more or maybe just one more.

There's a quality level right now. I'm 30 years into this. If you work 30 years you're a master Chef. Even if you take karate for 20 to 30 years, you're a master black belt, third degree, whatever. If you're a mechanic for 30 years, you're a master mechanic. I'm dead nice as an MC right now.  I'm so far beyond what people know me for and if they take a moment and check out EvitaN go to poolofgenius.com Check out some of the projects that I've released from the Blackpool of Genius, EvitaN. The EvitaN project with Jarobi, amazing bunch of videos on YouTube check it. It will bring you up to speed. Jaleel Shaw is on the DnD project. Jaleel Shaw’s a saxophone player out of Philly, an amazing jazz artist.  I've done some work with him. A compilation with him, check out Black Sheep Dres and Jaleel Shaw, incredible work.

That's what I've been doing. I'm not upset because cats haven't noticed yet. They will eventually and I'm positive about that. My whole thing is to make sure everything I'm doing I'm registering, make sure I'm crossing my T's dotting my Is as far as my due diligence. I am making sure I am doing what I am supposed to do because at some point, I might not even be here when that happens. At some point cats are going to see what I did, and that I did something.

VALIDATED: Last question. What does Hip-Hop mean to you?

DRES: It’s everything and it's crazy because Hip-Hop is almost like those of us who pushed it forward, that wasn't really our intent in doing it. We didn't tend to push it forward, we intended to be a part of it. But in trying to be a part of it, we pushed it forward - and in pushing it forward, we get to see what our influence on the world is. It didn't exist before Hip-Hop was embraced. I remember the first time a beat was played on television. I remember it because a beat wasn’t played on television before that. It was almost like Roots was on TV and your whole family ran to the TV because Roots was on. It was a beat, and nobody knew I ran to the TV because I never heard a beat on television. But we did that. Not me personally. But me personally. So now that almost every commercial has a fraction of what we brought to the table in it, now that everything, like you look at somebody, you see the influence of what we brought to the table. That wasn't here before we did that. It didn't exist before we did that and I'm directly responsible for what they are doing. Just like you are.

VALIDATED: We are part of this culture, you are responsible.

DRES: That's how much I love Hip-Hop. I see it in everything.

VALIDATED: Dres, thank you, it’s just great to speak to the legends and hear the history that often gets overlooked in our culture. They often just want to focus on what's new, when they should be paying homage to what made what's new possible.

DRES: One of the things was just my word and I made it a point to go find the cats that I felt influenced me, the MCs that I feel influenced me were Devastating Tito from The Fearless Four. I've been shouting them out in interviews since I've been doing it and one of the things that was such an honor and a privilege was not only to get to meet them, but to get to know them. Whenever I am performing in New York, I would call Just and say, come hang out and I would make sure he got a mic, and I make sure I introduce him and let him rock for five minutes or 10 minutes and whatever I got.

Because he gave me light, and I wanted the people to know that you can see him in me. I'm a reflection of my inspiration. That's my inspiration. I did a record with Tito and he’s even more special than I even imagined. It was just incredible, but that's what we're supposed to do. Not saying that somebody's supposed to find me. Unless I inspired you to pick up a pen.  If I did that, then come find me. But find whoever did and make sure they are good, make sure what they gave to you is returned in some way.

VALIDATED: Let everybody know where they can find you on social media and follow you and keep up with what you got going on.

DRES: I'm @BlackSheepDres on IG.

Love is love. Big shout out to you all. I appreciate you.

VALIDATED: Peace.