THE "SHOK" FACTOR: DJ Shok

YONKERS, NEW YORK | DJ SHOK

INTERVIEW TERRELL “REALIFE” BLACK

“If you’re successful at all in music, you’re not a slack. It is mad hard to get placements, it’s mad work. Lazy people who don’t do anything don’t become successful in the music business, you just can’t, you got to really be on the ball, you got to work hard.” - DJ Shok

VALIDATED: For those who don’t know, can you give us some background on who you are as far as a producer and DJ?

DJ SHOK: Yeah. I started DJing at the young age of ten. Did a lot of local stuff here in Yonkers, then I started DJing in the main clubs, like Octagon and just the different hotspots back in those days. And then I started producing at around sixteen. And I started my own label when I was eighteen called “Mass Vinyl”. And we had some nice underground hits, High-Tech’s “24/7” was our biggest record, we did that right out of my basement and we did marketing promotions. We did some good numbers with Vinyl, Red Alert was playing it, took us to Romania, Bay Area, Japan and that was that independent label time.

And then in ‘94, I did my first major release with Raw Breed with Godfather Don and Kool Keith and Melle Mel on the track that was on Sony Continuum. And then fast forward, I signed with Ruff Ryders in ‘98. Then I did my biggest record ever, “Slippin”, for DMX. Right after I signed, I did that. Went on to do maybe six songs with Eve, did a single for Drag-On, “Spit These Bars”, and also did “Life Goes On”, which is his life story, which is also on that same album. So, I did the single, I did Rah Digga’s single with Busta, “The Imperial”. Around that same time, did a song with Busta for his Anarchy album, I have done stuff with Snoop, Jadakiss, all the early D-Block stuff is actually from my studio in Yonkers that I had.

When I had my independent label in ‘96, I opened up that studio. And it ended up becoming the D-Block Studio around 2002, I would say. And so we did all the early—me and Chic did all the early D-Block songs that he did solo. “Monday Night Football” was like a super popular mixtape. We did like Jadakiss dissing Beans in the studio, he shouts me out on that on a disco beat. That beat was supposed to be for a remix for Olivia on J Records, and then Jadakiss comes to the studio with the beat. And instead of doing that, he disses Beans. I was like, "Damn, we just lost some money on that remix.” Because once you use it, you lose it. And then what else? Yeah, D-Block blew up after that. And I went into the country, and I hid out for a little while. The rest is history, as they say.

VALIDATED: So, that “Spit these Bars” for Drag-On, that beat? Where did that beat come from? How did you even come up with it?

DJ SHOK: I’ll tell you the equipment I used on that was the Proteus 2000. That’s the dada, dada, dada, dada, that sound. That is like… I can’t remember what the name of it was, but it’s the sound on there. And I used the Roland MC 50 for sequencing. I used the Akia S950 for the drums. And the strings, I think came out of the Proteus too. That was just a track I had done and I was shopping that beat around. And I originally did that for an R&B remix, because they would send me acapella and stuff. And I would submit. I kept chopping that beat because I felt like it was something strong. I played it many times at Ruff Ryder’s sessions, and they passed on it. And one night, it was just a good vibe, good energy. And I put it on and if everybody gave the reaction that I felt like it deserved finally, after playing it maybe eight, nine times… no exaggeration. Sometimes people will look at you in the camp, like, “You played this before.”, but I felt strongly about that one. So, I kept playing it. 

And it was the right moment, Drag took to it, D liked it, and they spent a lot of time curating his rhymes to it and how he was going to attack that one. And thankfully, it was a big record for Ruff Ryders, for Drag, for me. And as far as with the production on it, that’s the main elements, I would say, that’s just pretty much the main pieces of it.

VALIDATED: Yeah, it just seemed like that beat was made for him. That is my favorite Drag-On record.

DJ SHOK: Thank you, man. Yeah, it just worked. And one thing I could tell you is he and Darren, when he was writing that, they meticulously worked on how he was going to hit that flow. It was supposed to be a Biggie kind of vibe, because people were used to him chopping around, like, "dada, dada, drop that,’ that kind of thing. And he really went for something different on there, than what people were used to. And it worked, man. And Swizz came in with the hook and sealed the whole thing up.

VALIDATED: So, being from Yonkers, what’s your earliest memory of Hip Hop culture?

DJ SHOK: For me, growing up basically, I’m the youngest out of five kids. And there’s a big distance between the oldest three, about twelve years. And so, I’m maybe like in first grade, or younger, and they are already going to clubs. And my brother used to be around the New York City Breakers a lot. And so that stuff was coming into my house early. So, even as a little kid, by the time I was ten, I had turntables, I was recording Red Alert, and Marley Marl at the same time, when I was ten or eleven, and I go to school, and I had a friend named Doobie, and we used to talk about like, “Yo, you heard that joint he played with the Inspector Gadget beat?” And we were kids, too. 

So, it was like, “Yo, they use Inspector Gadget.” And we were like, “Yeah, yeah. But did you hear…?” Because it was hard because you wanted to… Red Alert would play songs that Marley Marl wouldn’t play because they had beef with the different crews. So, you had to tape both, or you wouldn’t hear the New Juice Crew because Red wasn’t going to play the New Juice Crew. And then you had to have a cassette, like basically in my living room stereo, like the family stereo, I had a cassette. And then I had a little box in my room, and I would do that, and I would stay up all night, Awesome Two, Teddy Ted, Hank Love... 

I remember someone had a record by Slick Rick called “Treat Her Like a Prostitute” that I never heard anywhere except on there. So, I love its culture and I love breaking. I wrote graffiti. That’s how I got popular djing, because I used to write "Shok". And even though I was young, I used to throw parties when I was maybe fifthteen, I rented out little halls. And a lot of people came because I would give out flyers in all the neighborhoods where I was up. And when I would be giving out flyers, would be like, “You’re Shok, the one who is up all over?” And I’m like, “Yeah, that’s me.” And they were like, “Alright.”, so I gave them the flyer. 

And then, surprisingly, people from Uptown Manhattan would end up popping up at my party, like, oh, shit. One time I had 400 people at a Jewish Community Center on South Broadway, I just rented it out for $400, $5 per head. And that’s how I started buying equipment and stuff. That’s like, fifthteen or sixteen years old.

VALIDATED: How did you get started with the graffiti?

DJ SHOK: Just the culture, in my stairs, in my building, seeing people write. Whip used to write in my… what was the other dude, Whip? Somebody else used to write on my stairs, and they were up on the streets, too. But then first, I wrote on the steps in the building. And then I went out, and then I got addicted to it. And then I would go out with any… I had different partners. And I will go out, but I was so addicted to it and wanted to get up because it was marketing. I wasn’t like a true graffiti artist, I could do throw-ups and I’d just tag. And the cool thing that I saw about it was that I was instantly known. 

I could go uptown. I was up like in the Dykeman area, on 207, in that area, and I could just go there where one of my friends who might know a couple of people. And they will be like, “That is Shok, oh, shit.” And I was already received. And that’s good for the DJing, because then they’d be having a party in someone’s apartment. And I would be like, “Yo, I will dj.’ because I would do anything when people would move, I would DJ in their apartment, in their kitchen, because the apartment would be empty, we’d do that. Now, parenting is a real one-on-one, the way I raised my kids is way different. We just raised ourselves. And Hip Hop was like… even Mr. Magic taught me stuff. He would say, “Be yourself, when you might find yourself by yourself.”

At the end of the show. He said, “Any fool can learn from the mistakes of others, but it takes a wise man to learn from their mistakes.’ something like that. He had like three or four that he used to bounce around, I’m trying to remember them. But those were on my tapes, and I used to go to the Chinese store and get a square in Yonkers, and I’d buy the blank tapes, so I wouldn’t erase and I would get a little allowance. I had little jobs. My dad had a restaurant, I used to be the waiter or whatever, take my tips, go straight to buy the new LL album, or whoever. They used to call me little DJ at Music Man. I loved music since I was little and Hip Hop was accessible because of my siblings, because they were on the scene. 

VALIDATED: It was kind of destined for you. 

DJ SHOK: And they knew DJs too. Back when I was little like, there was a battle of the DJs on 89 U, this is even before Hip Hop was on in the daytime. So, at that time, it was like a mix of like Electro, Planet Rock was out, and an eclectic mix of Hip Hop becoming more commercialized. And even the Battle of the DJs, one of the DJs went to Sacred Heart, which is a school in Yonkers, with my brother and sisters, and his name was Alder Moran. And he was the first dj I saw in front of me at the sweet sixteen. And he went on to be the owner of Cutting Records, he became my mentor. He distributed my independent label when I had it. 

He’s responsible for early stuff and all the way down to when it came, they called it Latin Hip Hop, which ended up becoming a freestyle. Cutting Records is a legendary New York label. And so everywhere I turned, it was very possible. I would go to a club and the DJ there was spinning, knew somebody I knew. It was very accessible, and it was something I felt I could do, because so many people were doing it. And I felt like if I just put my work in, I could make it happen. 

VALIDATED: I know you mentioned DJ Red Alert, but what influence did he have on you early on?

DJ SHOK: So, what he did was he really made me really connect with Hip Hop, because he was playing all Hip Hop. All the other DJs when it was on KTU would play a couple of Hip Hop records mixed in and there would be some new wave and some disco. It was a mix. And then Red Alert was like, "Oh my God, he’s playing all Hip Hop.’ it blew my mind, it was crazy. So, when I found Red Alert before, I found Marley Marl. Marley Marl and more was an accident, I’m taping Red Alert every night. And then I go over to BLS, I’m like, "Oh, snap, it’s over here, too." and now I’m like, “All right.” so then I was hooked on that, too. 

So, you got to realize it’s not like now Hip Hop is a big thing. I’m just this little kid staying up while everybody else is asleep in my house, tuning in and be like, “Oh, snap.” That’s how I found 89 U, every night. I’m just looking for somebody who is playing stuff that’s Hip Hop because you don’t hear it anywhere. So, I would go down the dial and every night I would do that. And that’s how I found even 105, with all those other late-night shows after that on Saturday nights and stuff. So, Red Alert made a big impact because he was all Hip Hop. And it made Hip Hop a real thing. Like, it was just, wow, this is something, this is a whole mix show of Hip Hop. And that’s how he really made an impact on me. 

And one of the coolest things is that independent record High Tech “24/7”, me looking up to Red Alert, and then all of a sudden, I put that record out on my own and I just put it in his mailbox. I’m driving at 5 o’clock when he had the 5 o’clock Free Ride on Hot 97—and I’m just driving, this is in ‘96. And he plays it. He ended up playing that record for like, a year. And it was like, wow, it meant so much because this was so cool to me. I listened to this guy’s show, I recorded it. He influenced me crazy to love Hip Hop. And then one day, my first independent… it was a big deal, because I produced it. My own label. I just put it in his mailbox, nothing big, no major company. And he felt it, it was like he fed me and in turn, I made something that I got him to play on a show that I basically worshiped growing up. So, that was really dope.

VALIDATED: So, what led you to producing music, as well as songwriting?

DJ SHOK: Just being in the studio. One of the things was, when I was really in the game heavy, like 1998 to 2002, which was like 24/7, studio to studio, flying from here to there. Whatever is happening, being there constantly, I realized, the more... Because the way it worked back then was, people would get a budget and they had artists who could be out for years on mixtapes, trying to do something, and then all of a sudden, they got a budget one day, and then they would go to do the album. And for some reason, there would always be this deadline. They waited forever, they finally got a budget, and they want it done in a month. It was always like that. 

So, then I was like, damn, I can have an edge because I’m competing against these great producers, some of the best producers of all time, I was competing with. And I was like, I could have a little bit of edge if I come with a song completed. So, if I could come to you, for example, like Jadakiss and Snoop “Cruisin”. I played that with the hook already, the same exact hook you hear on the record with the same people, which could have been referenced, but no, they liked it and they left it. I played it done. And then you think West Coast, you got this vibe, Jada, and then Snoop jumps in and it’s done. So, it’s not like they have to sit there and be like, “Damn, what am I going to do with this?” I’m giving them a direction. And I did that with Eve a lot. And it worked really well with Eve because she would see right away. “Life Is So Hard” was one. “Heaven Only Knows” came with the hook too. 

So, when you come with the hook, it’s makes… When people are pressed for time, this is the way it is, because I’m very observant. And I was just looking at my environment. And I tend to be more low-key. And I was like, how can I help them? I looked at it like, Eve is constantly running around. She’s doing tours. She now has to do an album. She barely has time. How can I make it easy for her? She can write bars, you know, she could write a song in a day no problem, in hours. But if I could just do the rest for her, I feel like they would appreciate it, and if it was hot, then that much better. 

That’s what got me into writing. And then after you do it like that, then you get into it, like anything, you do it and then you get into it, and then I enjoy it. I like to write. Even now, I still write stuff and record stuff just because I like doing it.

VALIDATED: And she seemed like she was dope. Number one, she was a dope artist. But she’s a rare breed when you talk about female artists because she writes her own stuff. Her delivery is crazy. She’s diverse. She makes great songs. I always thought she was top five female MCs of all time.

DJ SHOK: I was always super impressed with Eve, like, her talent. And not only that, like who she is as a person. She was always mad cool, humble, easy to talk to. A lot of people develop a thick skin in the industry, where they very easily can ignore people until they need them, or just totally block people out, even people that are successful, too, if they’re not needed at that moment. And she never did that to me, she was always really cool. If I ever saw her, it was always really cool. And I feel like talent-wise, she’s great, she was always great. I think she could have kept on and on doing that, but she is also really intelligent and talented in different ways, like acting and everything, and she has a great personality. 

And I think she saw how much more money you can generate with a lot less work, doing these other things. Music is a hard grind. And as much money as music generates, it doesn’t generate that much for the people who make it, it generates a lot of money, but not for those who make it. Whereas where you go to film, even doing music for film, if I sing something in a film, I can get a great check and more money than I could get sometimes for a hit record. It’s just that the film budgets are tremendous. To pay for licensing and score and anything music related in the film is so much more money. And you see all these artists who crossed over, like Chris Lighty, paved the way for a lot of that—rest in peace, Chris Lighty—for a lot of like, LL’s and Ice T’s, different people that crossed over into acting, because there was a whole thing that happened, that wasn’t normal. 

And then he did a lot of deals in the late 90s with the Hollywood people, and he crossed over a lot of rap artists into that genre of acting. And that opened a lot of people’s eyes, and they were like, you look at 50 Cent now, he is a smart guy. He’s just doing a lot of film and TV, the money is just so much better, you can even flop, you can fail and you’ll still generate more money than a successful album. Yeah, it’s crazy. So, Eve is the best. She’s my favorite out of all the people I worked with. Eve is the best, easily, I wouldn’t even have to think twice. 

VALIDATED: So, you were a member of the Ruff Ryders original production team. But how did that opportunity come about?

DJ SHOK: When I had my independent label, we had a mutual friend. Joaquin, who’s one of the CEOs, we had a mutual friend, this guy, Isaiah, and he was also a rapper. And Isaiah and Joaquin used to come and check me out in the basement, I had a little studio setup. And I had my independent label. And he stopped by and that’s when we first met. And he saw my little setup. He liked the beats. And he was like, “Yo, why don’t you come by and play some stuff?” I went by, at that time, this is probably like, ‘95 or ‘96 maybe. And when I went up there, they didn’t have too much happening. They had like an MPC, someone was there who was not really familiar with studio equipment. They didn’t really have anything going. And at that time in my head, I’m like, I have more going than this guy right now. 

Because at that moment, that’s how I felt, because they were managing The L.O.X. and DMX hadn’t really made the noise at all. Not even, “Get At Me Dog” was out. So, it was kind of like, “Ah, I don’t know.” So, I wasn’t in a big rush to work with them. And then I’m somewhere down the line, Isaiah came in and he had the cassette, when they freestyle over “Get At Me Dog”, I think it ended up on a DJ Clue tape. But he had the cassette that night, he ran over to me, he was like, “Yo, listen to this.” And I put it on. And that was the first time that my radar went up for Ruff Ryders. I was like, “Damn, this is crazy.” And the other thing that I thought to myself that night. And I had a lot of time to analyze it. 

Because I was like, if this works, because it was very different. It was more aggressive. The production was grittier. And at that time, because I was a very underground producer, and I liked Stretch and Bobbito vibe, like that real underground sound, and I even looked at The L.O.X.’s, Bad Boy was more of a commercial sound. So, when I heard that grittiness, but I was like, “Damn, there’s something happening in here,” that’s the crossover to me, in my head. This is gritty, but I can see this on a crew tape. It’s gritty, but it is still underground. But instead, it was more of a mainstream underground, like a crew underground verses like a Stretch and Bobbito underground. 

So, I was like, “All right, let me see how this goes.” And then it blew up and people started talking about it crazy. And I was like, “Damn, this is kind of working.” So, I went over, playing beats some more, seeing what was going on, but I didn’t want to sign because the deal was crap, which I’m paying for it still to this day. But not in that way. But what happened was Joaquin was like, “Yo, come downstairs, I want to play you something.” And this is like, “Get At Me Dog” was out. I think the video was out and you’re starting to hear a little bit of noise. He still hadn’t heard X on features and stuff. It was that moment right before he had the Cam’ron feature, he had a few things that happened at once. It was like right before that. And he’s like, “Let me play you something.”

We went to his truck and he played the whole X first album. And he knew I was going to sign after that. I was like, I’ll sign whatever you want, just send it to my lawyer. And then that was it. I signed and I became in-house. And it was mainly, at that time, it was PK Greece. Greece wasn’t technically in-house, but he might as well have been because he produced a majority of the first X album, and he stayed doing many songs with X throughout his career, and PK, me, and Swizz at that time. When I signed on, I was the first person to sign, aside from those foundational people who are on the first album, I was the first one right after that. That’s how I signed really, by hearing that album. 

And despite my lawyer was like, ‘You shouldn’t sign this and blah, blah.” I told him I was like, “You don’t understand. These guys are going to be, you know, like Bad Boy.” I was telling him about Queen Latifah has her company and I was like, “This right here, is going to be like that.” He was like, “I don’t know, I hope you’re right, blah, blah, blah.” And I was right. I had a feeling early on, listening to music since I was a little kid, following things and being so in tune, you get a rhythm for what’s next and what’s coming and you just feel it. And I was in tune, I’m in my early 20s at this point. I’ve been studying Hip Hop since I was 10. 

So, it’s not like a gut feeling. It was like a calculated analyzation of the situation. I looked at everything. I looked at The L.O.X., I looked at their popularity. I looked at everything. And I was like, with this right now, this is it. And I knew they were crowded with people. And I knew they had a lot of talent, you could feel the hunger, it was just a feeling. I just knew it. And I looked at it, like doing something, like McDonald’s or some big company, it’s so hard to get into the restaurant business. Let’s say you’ve got an idea to make tacos for some company, and McDonald’s is going to back it up, and they don’t give you the greatest deal, but they’re going to put you in every mall. And for like, four or five years, the deal stinks, but then you’re in the malls and you could do what you got to do from there. And that’s how I looked at it.

VALIDATED: I remember the first song I heard DMX on, because it was just a different vibe, his energy is unmatched, to me. I think it was a Mic Geronimo record.

DJ SHOK: Wow, good call. That’s what I mean with the features. He had a moment where there were features and features.

VALIDATED: He was killing the features. It didn’t matter who else was on it. 

DJ SHOK: Yeah, it was lined up perfectly. I got to give them a lot of credit. Ruff Ryders, as far as the way they managed to break him as an artist, it was done really well, really well. There was the LL one, there was the “Money, Power & Respect”. And the Cam one, which Cypher sounds reminded me of the other day on his Instagram, “Pull It”. Can’t forget that because that really, really solidified X. That was a big record. And it was hot. And that was happening at the same time as all the other stuff we just said, really was like, oh, damn, this dude is hot. And then he starts dropping this album, which is ridiculous. To me, that album… see, people do Top Ten and people forget about X a lot and all that stuff. But one thing that that album, that first—I’m not on it, but that first album is different because it changed a tide. 

And to me, that’s something remarkable. It’s remarkable. When you make an album that changes the tide and makes people have to rethink everything they’re doing when they go into the studio. That should be honored throughout the history of the genre, in my opinion, that should be highly honored. Just like Nas with “Illmatic”. Nas, when he did that, he made everybody have to rethink because you had this really Boom Bap sound. You had multiple producers, which was different at that time. If it was Black Moon, Evil D, it was always Premier if it’s Guru, there was this thing of always one producer, it was him using different producers. 

And then on top of that, having this Boom Bap sound that was still commercially viable, crazy real. And let’s not even go into the lyricism on there. But that to me… maybe I’m biased because I worked with X, but I really feel like “It’s Dark And Hell Is Hot" does not get its proper due. Because it did the same thing. X gets overlooked because it’s true, he’s not as lyrical, he is not Nas, he’s not. The intricacy and the way that he connects things, it’s not at that level. But no one else can get on a track and… just like how Jay says in that funny video going around where he just growls when he’s backstage, no one has the presence. Other people if they said X’s lyrics, it wouldn’t sound right. Other people if they said Nas’ lyrics, it would be like, “Yo, that’s fire.” With a different tone and different voice.

VALIDATED: You can feel him. My thing with X was always, that I feel like there is only one other rapper that I can put in that same category and that’s Tupac. And I know I’ve read before he didn’t like that comparison. But for me, it takes a different type of artist, for you to be able to feel their pain. It is one thing to be able to spit, but you could automatically relate to X through his lyrics, you could feel that.

DJ SHOK: Yeah, it’s different. You know what, it’s kind of interesting, because Nas is my favorite all-time MC. But X, in my opinion, didn’t need to work as hard to craft the way the syllables rhyme here with this, and then the first word, and the third word, he didn’t have to work that hard. 

VALIDATED: I don’t think that was his crowd, though.

DJ SHOK: He just went in and he’s just this force of a human being. And he just is this— whatever you want to call it, this entity that just comes on this track, and dominates and pulls you in, and makes you wonder who is this?

VALIDATED: I love when he told stories. 

DJ SHOK: He’s a sick storyteller, sick storyteller, sick storyteller. Still one of my favorites is, I mean, it’s not even that much of a story, but I just love it, the “ATF”, you know, “Knock on the door, boom, boom, boom." I feel like I’m in the car with him and Greece. When I listened to that, it’s like, I’m in the back of the car, like, oh, shit, another one. I’m still there when I’m listening to that. And so yeah, rest in peace. He’s an incredible storyteller. Just a presence and you can’t teach that, it just is, it’s just something that you’re born with, something God-given, something that people can try as hard as they want to have, but you either do it or you don’t. I just feel like he gets left out of the conversation too much.

VALIDATED: And I definitely think he pushed the bar in his own way. Because on top of all the stuff we already said, like you look at certain topics that he touched on, like, when he would have the conversation between him and the demon. And the fact that he would carry that over from album to album and keep carrying the story on. Everybody can’t do that, to me stuff like that was his niche. But again, it was relatable. Especially as you get older and you get more familiar with life, that’s the type of stuff you deal with. So, I feel like that was one of his niches, he was relatable.

DJ SHOK: And that is mad hard to do, it’s mad hard to take your real life, at least in my opinion, my dabbling that I’ve done in just a little songwriting here and there, it’s very hard to put that into words and into a song and into a mood that actually reflects how you really feel. It’s not easy to do that. It’s super hard and he did it really well with the right music, the right tracks, the right voices, you know, his voicing changes. But X was probably one of the earlier people in Hip Hop playing with the voices, even when he would respond to himself and he had other characters within himself, and that he would play out in different songs and stuff and change his voice too. I don’t know that many others before X. I’m sure there are a couple of songs, if I really thought about it. But I feel like he probably… I guess he did it more often, in my opinion, than people did before he did. 

VALIDATED: I know you also produced “Slippin” by DMX. What can you tell us about that studio session?

DJ SHOK: That one was… I had just signed with Ruff Ryders. I went down, literally like the day before. And they were like, “There is going to be a limo to meet you at the office.” I think it was 54th Street or something. I can’t remember the address. But they had the office there and it is going to take me to the airport to go work on X’s second album. And I was like, “All right,” I went. And I had all my stuff with me, basically got over there, went with PK and Greece, and as soon as I got off the plane went straight to the studio. And got there. I still have my bags. And I went and started playing beats because there was some stuff going on, so it was a good opportunity for me to start playing beats. 

So, I started playing beats, and then Swizz came in and he was like, “Yo, you got joints for X?" And I was like, “Hell yeah.” So, he called X, and X came over. And this is literally like I just got there. X starts going through, he’s like, “Skip that, skip.” He skips like, maybe five or six. And it surprised me like crazy. Because when you play beats, if you don’t get them in five seconds, six seconds, they skip it usually back then at least, it had to grab people right away. I got skipped on intros many times. And I was like, “Geez, at least let the beat drop.” But you know how subtle the intro is for “Slippin”, right? 

VALIDATED: Yeah. 

DJ SHOK: He let it play. He let it go. He was skipping, skipping, and he just let it go on. And then he and Swizz looked at each other like they had maybe been looking for something for those lyrics. I don’t know. It was like a look, they gave each other and he started mouthing the lyrics. And X looked at me, he was like, “Lay that.” And I was like, “Okay,” so I had my discs and everything. And I laid the beat right away. And probably an hour after he said lay that, I laid it and he did his vocals in one take, I remember straight through. It happened really fast, that record.

I laid the beat. He did his vocals. We got the background vocals done right after. And then the person from Def Jam was asking me for sample clearance. And everybody was talking about the record. And I just got there, I didn’t even know everybody really and the engineer Rich Keller was like, "Yo, everybody is asking who the hell just came in and did the song?" And I was like “Shit.” But it’s funny because I've had people say, you got lucky, or whatever. But yeah, okay, I got lucky. Let’s just say for argument’s sake. I’m a kid, 10 years old recording, doing parties. I’m like, 25 or 26 at the time. 

VALIDATED: You have been preparing for that since day one.

DJ SHOK: That’s what I mean, so it’s kind of funny when people say that to me, because it’s like, yeah, you could look at it like that. But it really doesn’t make sense because I was so prepared. He said, lay it, next thing you know... if I was unprofessional, I wasn’t prepared, I couldn’t find my disc or whatever. That could have lost that moment. The world would never have “Slippin”, it’s very possible because then the next thing you know, an hour later, someone else plays something else. He gets laid, and then that song is done, and then “Slippin” may never even have happened. 

So, I don’t really say it’s luck, it’s a combination of things, right place, right time, being prepared, working hard. Having a quality product, being talented, being persistent. It’s a whole list of reasons why stuff happened. That’s how that record happened. It’s funny, people try to get greedy sounds now, but I had sampled the Grover Washington Jr. “Moonstreams” off of vinyl and had some pops. 

So, I actually went and got the CD from Tower. Not when I was out there, but before, when I made the beat, and I wanted to clean it up. So, I actually sampled it off the CD to make it sound more clear. Because it was funny because we wanted it to be gritty. But then when Dre came out, and he came out with “The Chronic”, it was so clean and beautiful. It made me rethink, but then I was like, “Damn, but look how beautiful Dre’s stuff sounds.” So, I wanted to have my stuff sound clean too. I cleaned up that sample and I went towards making it sound clean and big, which was cool because it ended up being a top 40 type of record, so that was cool.

VALIDATED: So, would you say that’s your biggest record to date?

DJ SHOK: For a lot of reasons, it is, because it has meaning. Sales wise, it almost isn’t because I did, “Here We Go Again” on the next album. And that sold more, that did like five times platinum. The “Slippin” single by itself was platinum. But I always feel like that’s the biggest record because it gets the most emotional response. It affected people. I’ve had people email me from across the world sometimes, find my email and say “You don’t know what the song has done. I had to find out who made the music.” I’ve had people hug me,  just meet somebody and they are like, "Yo, you did that?" And they just hugged me, and almost cry.

I feel like that’s pretty amazing. And sometimes I get down and shit, depressed or whatever. And it comforts me a little bit to be like, what, you’re just a kid from Yonkers, practically a statistic. And you made one of the greatest songs ever, really. There are probably a thousand other greatest songs. But it’s one of them. What more could I ask? I’ve had my ups and downs in the business and everything. But that was my dream. And I did it. So, I’m always going to say that’s the biggest one to me easily. I did a lot of stuff. I did Remy Ma’s first record, Pun on “Yeah Baby”, I did that. 

I did another song on there with him, Drag, Fat Joe. I’ve done a lot of stuff. The list of people I’ve worked with, I got to work with Tina Marie, who was one of my favorite R&B singers ever… rest in peace. Which also happened to be one of Eve’s, which was pretty cool, because she was like, "I’m getting Tina Marie to..." because I had a reference hook. She’s like, "I’m getting Tina Marie to sing.” I was like, "Oh, my God, I can’t believe that. That’s so dope.” So, I’ve had some cool stuff happen. And it was a good run and I’m grateful. 

VALIDATED: I know you’re working on a documentary, what can you tell about it?.

DJ SHOK: Yeah, the documentary is basically going to be about my life. And a big part of it is going to be involving my lawsuit with Ruff Ryders, the fact that I won, it’s going to talk about the music business. And just a lot of the bad practices. I am going to have other people on there who can tell their stories. I don’t want to give away too much. But it’s crazy that when the news came out that I won my case, I talked to a lot of people and it was weird, because they were telling me their stories and they sounded a lot like my story. 

There were two producers, because when you don’t get paid, and you expect to get paid. Picture it like this, let’s say you just had a job, wherever, you’re a chef at a restaurant, and all of a sudden, you’re supposed to get paid. So, you’re getting paid in a certain way where let’s say they give you the advance for being the chef for that year, and then after that, you get a different type of pay. And then that carries on, but then all of a sudden, you don’t get paid. 

So, now you’re like in a really bad spot. You can’t pay your rent. You got to downsize. And the stories were the same, because what happens with the way the production money ends up is you get these advances, and then you’re supposed to get your royalties. But a lot of what happened to a lot of producers is when you’re supposed to get those royalties, the people who are in between you and the label, they pocket the whole thing. And then they don’t give it to you. So, let’s say you make a big record, it does really well for that quarter. And you’re supposed to get like $70K, let’s say they just keep the whole $70K. They’re supposed to keep, let’s say 20% or 15%. They just keep the whole thing. 

And then what happens is, and that’s why our stories are similar because I’ll be talking to them and I’m like, “Yeah, I had to put all my stuff in storage. I lost my record collection, my studio furniture… That’s what happened to me.” And he’s like, “Yo, the same thing happened to me.” Because think about it logically, you just get this dip and you’re expecting these monies. So, what’s the next thing you do? The first thing you do is, “All right, I got to move. I got to downsize. Let me put my stuff in storage.” But then it keeps going and you can’t get any resolution. And because it takes years of court, you have to find a lawyer who is willing to take it, you have to pay. 

So, the way I survived it is I basically ended up going into… my job now, my full time is, I’m in the Broadcast Engineering Department at the United Nations, which is basically repairing and installing conference room cameras, radio studios, TV studios. And that’s how I was able to survive. And that’s what it’s going to be about. I hope that somewhere along the line, this can stop, because it was really greedy, it is very unfair. It sucks, man. By no means would I be a millionaire, well, it was that much money. But a millionaire, I guess, someone who is maintaining that type of money for years and years and years, it is that much money. But it changes your life. That’s life-changing money. 

And if you don’t have access to that, it makes your family life difficult. It makes everything hard and it messes with your mental health. And that’s what I want the documentary to bring up, all those points where it’s not just money. It’s like you’re messing with people’s lives. If you’re successful at all in music, you’re not a slack. It is mad hard to get placements, it’s mad work. Lazy people who don’t do anything don’t become successful in the music business, you just can’t, you got to really be on the ball, you got to work hard. 

And I feel like it’s messed up to do that to people like that, who are dedicated, who work hard, who give you good products, who help your company, to be what it is, who make records like “Slippin” and help everybody to actually keep the funds, to not even just give you the money and it’s a very hard fight in court and everything and I hope somewhere along the line, maybe the documentary will spark some really smart lawyers out there, some people who want to do something good in the world. I don’t know how to fix it, but maybe I can plant a seed for somebody.

I have loved music since I was 10 and that’s my obsession. Maybe there is someone out there who wants to do that with law or they’ve loved it since they were young, and they see my documentary, and it sparks something, and then 15 to 20 years down the road, they make the change. That’s my hope. If I could plant that seed, I’m not expecting it to change everything, but if it can be a seed, then I’ll be happy.

VALIDATED: So, as a producer, who were some of the producers that influenced your style, and what, if anything, did you borrow from them?

DJ SHOK: Definitely Q Tip, because that “Low End Theory” blew my mind as a producer, Pete Rock, the “Mecca and the Soul Brother”  album, just crazy, the production, Premiere is so consistent, and Premiere started with “Manifest” and then he changed his sound up again just to rep that era. And then he turned into this Boom Bap definition later on in his career. And so Premier is way up there too. Buckwild, I remember I listened to it, it’s not even a popular record, but the production to me, the beat, it was funk dubious, “If your soul loves the sun, money rock on it,” I can’t remember the name of it. 

But the beat that Buckwild put on that remix, was a clear-looking vinyl. I played that beat like, I wouldn’t be exaggerating if I said a hundred times over a week. I was studying it because there’s a science to taking samples, and putting drums and choppiness, yet making it sound full and smooth. It’s not easy. It is not like now because these days, they sell you everything, all work done, without all the hard work that you had to do before. But back then I promise you, it wasn’t easy. So, I kept listening to these guys. And I would say those are probably the main ones. And I really studied them. 

And then, later on, I definitely got to give credit to the other Ruff Ryder producers, like PK Greece and Swizz, because now they gave me the order of, I’m this sample guy from the underground. And they’re like, “We don’t use samples.” So, I got away with “Slippin” because it was too late. And it already happened. And it was like such a beloved record. But after that, they would like look to see if I had a sample in it. So, if you notice, the rest of the stuff I placed is no samples. They were strict about that. So, I’m like, “Holy crap!” 

So, I had to really tune my sound a bit, play more, get more of the modules and get into making stuff that isn’t sample-based. It’s not like I had never done that, but I never had it imposed on me. I was always free in the studio to just do whatever, “Oh, this is a dope sample. All right, let’s sample it.” With them, it was a hard rule. Once in a while, one would sneak by but they were never happy about that. And just really honestly, it’s a shame, because a lot of great records have happened, there were many that happened. But picture, what if we could have sampled a little more freely in the camp, maybe we’d have like four more great records, in my opinion. 

Because on the first album you see the samples. But really, it’s not a music thing, it’s more of a greed thing. It’s more of making more money from the publishing and owning more of it, which they kept. So, that’s why they did that and it forced a sound onto the camp. I’m pretty sure, I know I would have sampled more. I know that. I definitely would have sampled more.

VALIDATED: So, what does the remainder of 2022 look like for you?
DJ SHOK: The rest of 2022? That’s a good question. It’s funny, I don’t have a hard plan. Hopefully, I’ll be in my cabin. Well, it is not really mine, I rent out a cabin a lot from somebody that I started with on AirBnB, I love to go out there in the woods and there is a stream back there. And I just love to be in nature and it makes me feel good. So, hopefully, I’ll go there a little bit and work on this documentary. And I got a lot of my book going. I got all the chapters laid out. It’s biographical. But I’m hoping to help people because, at the end of the day, I’m hoping to put some in someone’s hand. Because there are enough people out there that are going to tell you, make 10 beats a day. I mean, no disrespect to them because a lot of them are people I respect and admire and I even know some of them and support them. But that’s not what I feel like I have to provide. I feel like I have life wisdom and how to deal with stuff and how to try to be content.