PUT SOME RESPECT ON HIS NAME: Charlemagne
BRONX, NEW YORK | CHARLEMAGNE
INTERVIEW TERRELL “REALIFE” BLACK
“Music gives you feelings and memories. And that’s what I try to do, I try to make some kind of mood music.” - Charlemagne
VALIDATED: Being from The Bronx, What’s your earliest memory of Hip Hop Culture?
CHARLEMAGNE: Well I’ll tell you how I got introduced to Hip Hop. So I’m West Indian from the Island of St. Lucia. I came up to this country in 1976 and my brother, Al, who was already here was out there and you know, was heavy into Hip Hop. I didn’t know nothing about it and we went out to Eastern Parkway… The West Indian Day Parade. I went out there and I’m listening and there’s this stuff coming out from a Brownstone. I’m listening and at that time I didn’t know what “cutting” was, I just heard them cutting up a record and the record was “Treat Em Right”. I was like “Oh my God!” I just stayed there the whole time - there’s no other feeling. So the next thing you know my brother gets some turntables, you know, we start practicing… Big Beats, Freedom, you know all the big beats. He starts chasing girls and left all the equipment there so you know I just got into it. I started djing first. My brother ended up going to “T-Connection” and all these other spots and he tells me about the “Funky 4 + 1” and brings me all the tapes - “Cold Crush”, “The Furious 5”, “Fantastic 5” and I’m like “Man this is it… I’m Hip Hop for life. I gotta get into this thing.” Started djing and from there that led into production.
VALIDATED: That’s dope but how did you transition from St Lucia to The Bronx?
CHARLEMAGNE: It was culture shock, I came up here, you know… It wasn’t easy getting teased all the time- “coconut head” and blah, blah, blah but it was cool though. I never seen snow in my life, it was different but you know this is America… you gotta adapt.
VALIDATED: Do you feel being from St Lucia with that upbringing and culture gave you a different type of ear for production and djing?
CHARLEMAGNE: Um, not really because I was into music my entire life. I mean, I even remember back in St Lucia, because you know they heavy on the Soca and the Reggae and that kinda stuff. I know my first introduction to music was “Oh What A Night”, that Frankie Valli joint and that other guy, Elton John. I was hearing music like that from way back. I always used to read the back of the albums and I was fascinated because I always wanted to see who was playing the drums and learning when did this happen. I was always into music, period.
VALIDATED: Does that run in your family?
CHARLEMAGNE: No, unfortunately I’m the only musical one.
VALIDATED: Ok, so you’re the pioneer.
CHARLEMAGNE: I mean, yeah, but you know everyone was talented in their own way.
VALIDATED: So how did you get your start as a producer?
CHARLEMAGNE: That’s an interesting story too. So I’m djing all over the place, of course locally because I wasn’t known like that. We moved from St Lawrence Ave to around 241st St… I didn’t have a lot of friends out there so that was also a culture shock because we was one of the first black people on the block so we had a lot of “Go back to Africa signs”. They took down the basketball hoops so we couldn’t play, you know what I’m saying. It was real. So we was one of the first black families and I had to find other black families just to meet and talk to and it just so happened my mom had a friend who lived about 8 blocks up on Gunther Ave and I met my man Vidal and we took it from there. He saw I had a musical inclination and we bought our first 4 track. It’s a funny story with a 4 track because a 4 track if you know it uses a cassette. A cassette has 2 sides, it's actually sliced in half. One side is A and one side is B. A 4 track uses all sides so when we was recording it sounded garbled so we’re like, “Ayo, this is crazy, we broke this joint!” But you know each lever is one track so its vocals here, beat here, whatever it may be and we figured it out and then I started creating. Before I even got a sampler what I used to do was use the pause button and pause a breakbeat for like 3 minutes and you know how that go because if you miss one you gotta start over. It was crazy man.
VALIDATED: So back to the djing for a minute, you actually dj’ed in clubs as well?
CHARLEMAGNE: Not really in clubs, it was more family and friends stuff. Eventually I got into clubs and that was basically it but I wasn’t heavy into clubs.
VALIDATED: I noticed that a lot of producers we’ve interviewed, they actually start off djing first. What is the connection and how is the transition?
CHARLEMAGNE: Well this is why it's always so easy to transition from djing to producing because if you’re blending, you’re blending tempo. So if something is 80 BPM you’re gonna get something at 80 BPM then you’re gonna slide the fader to the next record. They’re actually blending something. So let's say the other one has an acapella vocal, so now your acapella vocal has to go at the same time as the other record. So you’re actually blending and you’re producing right there. You know, just like how Kid Capri “Something In The Way You Make Me Feel” with the “Impeach The President”, that’s producing because you’re taking two things that don’t really belong together because that’s not the original track and you’re making it work and people’s ears are on fire like, “What is that? I never heard that before.” So it’s an easy transition. Once you start blending and mixing but not necessarily the cutting and mixing, just the blending. The blending aspect of it, you’re like now I have my own artist and I have to make some kind of beat out of blending maybe 5 different records together.
VALIDATED: That makes sense but where was your heart initially? Was it in djing or beat making?
CHARLEMAGNE: My heart was in music because up to now I dj’d up til the pandemic. I was in Show Palace, a strip club out in NY out in Long Island City and I was still out here doing beats. So you know my heart is in both places. If I had to choose of course I’d do the beats because that’s like super creative. I still do it the old way. I don’t paste and drop… I get the snare, get the kick, get the bassline, get the sample and chop it up. I still do it the old way, you know what I mean… Homestyle Cooking.
VALIDATED: Speaking of the old way, do you find it more lucrative? Is it harder to make money doing beats now versus back then?
CHARLEMAGNE: Of course, first of all, you got to remember record companies back then, there weren’t a thousand record companies. And the offers were humongous. I never heard of numbers like that. Back when I was producing, I’m hearing people getting $50K a track. Allegedly Dr. Dre got $250K a track… You’ll never hear numbers like that again. Right now, that’s not happening because there’s a plethora of new producers who don’t know their value, who’ll give it away for nothing, or next to nothing. And then you have the $399 beats online and the funny thing is, I’m not even dissing them because some of their work is dope. It’s just like I said they don’t know the value of it.
So, it’s like, “Man, I could get this beat at $399, but I’m going to get this.” So, that’s what it is. But back then, listen to their names, Def Jam, Columbia Records, Atlantic Records, Warner Brothers… You’re talking about big conglomerates, so when they gave the check, it was nuts. At the height, $15K, $30K a track was not unheard of. Now you tell somebody a price, it’s like, they can’t give you $10K, it’s like, that’s too much.
VALIDATED: Is that because there are no labels?
CHARLEMAGNE: That and you got to remember, also—I don’t want to give away too much game but there was another game out here in the streets where people would give you a paper bag, and you get the money and you make things happen. All that is shut down. What they have now is probably like, scamming or whatever it is they do now. But the money slowed down. And the funny thing is there is still money out there. Because all the major labels still have the money and are still doing the streaming business and all that, but I’m saying back then, they knew that for you to get a certain type of producer, you’d have to give up a certain amount of bread.
VALIDATED: So, what’s the most you’ve heard of a producer getting paid, $250K?
CHARLEMAGNE: That’s the most I’ve heard. I know a Dr. Dre or maybe a Timberland getting $50K or something. These are just rumors. I can’t even tell you. But just to hear that number, wow, that’s incredible, just for a beat? Like, oh God.
VALIDATED: Who’s buying that track, Michael Jackson?
CHARLEMAGNE: That's what I’m saying, that’s nuts.
VALIDATED: Do you feel there's a difference in the talent levels when it comes to producers from your era versus how they do it now?
CHARLEMAGNE: It is, I mean everything is easy now, let’s keep it a buck. I went to a studio recently, just to see… Again, I’m not dissing anybody, I’m just telling you what I saw. And to see a new producer and I’m like, let’s collaborate and see what he’s doing. And everything is basically there for them. Let’s say, there’s a melody, it’s already there. And they get put into any tempo, 80 beats per minute, 90 beats per minute. And I’m like, aight cool. So, he got that and maybe he plays the baseline. But then the drums are prepackaged already, like the pattern, everything is done. So, it’s just basically copy and paste. There’s no actual work going on. So, it’s not like they have to think really hard about it. Or, let me dig and find a sample that I think I could chop. I don’t want to be called a purist or hater or whatever, but that’s just the way I do things, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the only way or the right way, but that’s what I came up on. And that’s what I still do, but in a futuristic way.
VALIDATED: That’s the difference between old school R&B and new school R&B. There’s just a different vibe to it.
CHARLEMAGNE: You’re right about that. But I also think if you want to talk about that, the R&B is a whole different conversation where we could say it’s more of a wordplay as well, because back then there were some words you didn’t say within an R&B song, even though it’s dope though, I love it. I love me some Chris Brown, but what I’m saying is there are certain words that he sang in his songs that back then it was like “No, this is R&B?” Whitney Houston is not singing that part. You’re not getting Tyrese to sing it.
VALIDATED: No, that’s definitely true. So, you were on Nervous Records. What was it like being on that label at the time?
CHARLEMAGNE: Well, before that, we had our own label. Me, Vidal, my brother Randy, Ray Lugo and another gentleman, Seth Bryant. I don’t think there was independent records at that time. Again, I could have been living in my own bubble but we did our own thing, we were called “Fortress Records”. And I was dealing with this group called “Natural Elements”, Mr. Voodoo, A-Butta, Swagger, Essence and there’s a load of other dudes too, because the way they used to work was like I told you, we were in the attic, me and my man, Vidal. I finally got a keyboard that sampled and had the lowest sample time. But they used to come up there, and let’s say it’s nine brothers come up there, all nine guys would have to leave with a beat.
So, my work rate was crazy, I used to pop out beats crazy, you know, I mean? And then after a while, we put out those records and the guys that I mess with were really nice lyrically, and still are, and they got the era of like underground radio, Martin Moore Stretch and Bobbito, you know, those guys and they did like a whole run.
And after they heard that, that’s how I ended up on Nervous. Even with the Nervous situation I was nervous because at the time they were on a decline, which I didn’t know, because if I did know, I wouldn’t have done that. They were in litigation or whatever they were in with Black Moon. They had beef with Black Moon, they had beef with Flex. Flex was on Nervous Records for a second as well. And I didn’t know all of those situations. So, the way they were set up, I wasn’t sure but it is what it is.
VALIDATED: So, do you prefer to be independent or major?
CHARLEMAGNE: Well, independent, of course, you keep more of your catalog, more of your stuff. But major, you get more of a push, because they know which hands to grease and what to do and what buttons to push to get your song to the next level. But it can be done. You see Russ, you see Macklemore. I know naming some white guys, let’s keep it 100%. But that’s not to say that it can’t be done on our side to a certain level of success where you could enjoy the money. To me anything could work, but it takes work. And when I say work, I mean lots of work. So, that means you got to be on top of everything.
VALIDATED: We mentioned earlier about the notoriety about people sleeping on or might not know who you are. Sometimes I think personally, that could be good, because you got producers that they get pegged… You get their sound, you’d be like, “Oh, that’s a Dre beat or that’s a such and such beat.” When they don’t know who did the beat, you could be all over the place because they don’t even know your sound, but you’re reaping the benefits at the same time.
CHARLEMAGNE: Yeah, I’ve always been kind of a chameleon. I never like to pigeonhole myself to make a certain sound. For instance, if you are on my page, you will see that I flipped The Weekend beat. If it came out yesterday, and I feel it is dope, I’ll try to flip it. I’ve never been strictly, let me dig through 60s, 70s funk records and that is it. Or let me just do slow drum beats now. Now up tempo, that is the only thing I didn’t master, I will say that but mid and slow tempo beats, I got a lot of those all day. I just enjoy finding something and chopping it up. There’s something about it, when you hear that song or that music or that Jazz or whatever it may be, that Rock, whatever you find, and it’s like, “Wow, no one touched this yet? This is crazy.”
VALIDATED: What was your first major placement and how did that opportunity come about?
CHARLEMAGNE: Okay. Again, it goes back to my beginnings. I was with Fortress Record, we put out records, it was a circular firing squad. Because we all had, at the time, legal jobs. So, when you have legal jobs, there is no money. So, it’s like to get records to buy records, to sell records to get records to buy records to sell records. And we were just out there pushing these records. And we had some moderate success. Because back then, it was no gimmick, so you had to rap. So, after a while those guys like I said got famous on “Stretch and Bobbito” and “Martin Moore & Mayhem”. I’m trying to remember who else. There was a lot of different little underground shows. My man Jay Smooth, “Underground Railroad”.
So, Martin Moore took a liking to those guys, ‘Natural Elements' and invited them up. And like I said, my work rate was incredible. So, I just put a whole bunch of beats on a cassette tape, like an eight-sided tape, probably filled it up with beats, the whole joint. And then they went up there and freestyled on it for like, maybe 10 to 15 minutes, you will probably find it online somewhere. And I’m not sure what night it was but Method Man came up there and actually freestyled on one of my tracks. And he just incorporated my name into the freestyle… that was crazy. And I still have that somewhere as well.Then after a while Martin Moore also got involved with Neil Levine of “Penalty Records”, and I think he had Shabazz the Disciple when he was out and Capone-N-Noreaga. So when it was time to do a CNN album he already knew my quality of beats so he asked me to submit and get some stuff done and I think that was my first major placement. Which even then if you think about it was not major cause it was Penalty Records. It’s not like Def Jam or whatever, but yeah… That was the first major placement where people might have heard my sound.
VALIDATED: So, being in the game as long as you’ve been in it, who was one of your mentors in the music industry?
CHARLEMANGE: That’s tough because I was self taught… I was all about my business when I moved into the industry. In and out, you know what I mean… You want beats, I’m in here, ready to do the work you know, ready to do music. I never stood around and listened to tough stories or did all that other stuff. I was just about the music. If you could talk music to me then we could talk all day but you talking about street culture, I’d just get out. That type of stuff, I was not around for that. So I never really met any of my peers at that time who were like Large Pro, Pete Rock, Premiere and Diamond. I never met those dudes. Were they influential in my style? Of course because you know everybody influences everybody else but I never really had a mentor. I was always a one man band.
VALIDATED: Yeah, I can understand that. So you were around Kanye West early on?
CHARLEMAGNE: Yeah, this is how that happened. So, you got to remember at the time when all this stuff was going on, I’m still a free agent. I’m out here doing my thing, doing Nervous Records, like you said I was doing the Natural Elements thing as well. And D - Dot Angeletti – shout out to him – was one of the Hitmen with Puff. He wanted to do his own thing. So, he formed “Crazy Cat Catalog”. And we used to work out of Jimmy Henchman studios on 28th Street. So, he wanted to form his own Hitmen, he had a team of producers.
I don’t remember exactly all the other names, but I just know those three, because those two other guys was Kanye and Coptic. And I think there’s another guy named Blake Carrington. I want to say there were about six, seven of us producers there. And I did meet a young Kanye. And I remember a story about him. I was with my lady at the time, we were going to a party, I want to say was in the Village somewhere. And I thought it would be in that documentary because that was the time when he had on the Astros Jersey.
Believe it or not, I know people are not going to believe it or whatever. But he looked up to me, he was asking me for stuff and drums because remember I was out during that time, like you said, nobody knows me, whatever. I’m still buzzing within the industry, but nobody’s giving me big write ups or whatever. So, anyway, he runs into me, and this is when he was trying to rhyme. I believed that he could rhyme, but I knew that’s another whole story when he went up to Rockefeller and they wasn’t really rocking with them like that. They liked him as a producer as far as his rhymes, they wasn’t really rocking with him.
So, he sat there and rhymed for me for like 20 minutes to the point that my lady was like, “Who the hell is this guy? We got to go.” He wanted to ask me which lines to keep and which ones are dope. I’m like, “Keep this, keep that, I like this a lot about the lawyer, boom, boom.” And I just left it at that. But at that time, he was who he said he was. I’m not taking nothing away from that man, besides the recent shenanigans, but back then, he was who he said he was. And that documentary is actually dope because it brings me back to those times when I did go to Baseline and I met him. And Young Guru was instrumental also because he was there, I met him at Crazy Cat. And then when he was at Baseline, Young Guru was always kind of like… I want to say not a fan, but he always looked out if he saw a situation that he could help me with.
VALIDATED: So, you’ve worked with some major Hip Hop and R&B artists, including Jay Z, Cameron, R. Kelly, Mary J. Blige, Missy Elliott, and the list goes on and on. But who’s on your bucket list that you haven’t worked with yet?
CHARLEMAGNE: That’s hard, because you mentioned the Mount Rushmore for a lot of people. So, the only person I can say that I haven’t worked with that I want to work with, is probably Nas, but Nas and Hit-Boy got a sound. And that’s going to be hard to infiltrate. You can’t do that anymore. When you find a magic formula, I say stick with it. So, I am not going to try to touch that one. Wherever I can get a track with Nas, that’d be dope, because I think that’s my bucket list right there.
I actually had a chance to work with Dr. Dre. I’ve never met him but I was told he was interested in some of my stuff. And I did send something out to him, and he sent it back. The artist he had at the time was a dude named Gauge from Philly and Sunshine Anderson was on the hook. I still have that track somewhere.
So, there was a possibility of me working with Dre somewhere. I just never got a chance to. So, I would say bucket list probably Nas, Dre and maybe some of the Griselda guys. I’ve never worked with them though. So, that fits where I’m at.
VALIDATED: So, I know you mentioned earlier that you don’t pigeonhole yourself into one sound. But as a producer, what is it that makes a Charlemagne track stand out?
CHARLEMAGNE: Well, my thing has always been to try to give you a feeling. My joint is just about feeling. I always tell people that music is subjective. You can sell land. Land is land, a house is a house and a cup is a cup. But music is like, you might like it, your man might not like it. It’s subjective. So, everybody’s ear is different. Everybody’s mood is different. But the best thing that you can get from music is a feeling to the point that, like I said, let me take you back even to the beginning to the point I told you when I first heard Hip Hop, it wasn’t even Hip Hop, it was just somebody cutting up, “Treat Me Right”, that record. And that brings me back to that day, when they were on the stoop cutting the record. That “Inner Choice” record, that gives you a memory. So, music gives you feelings and memories. And that’s what I try to do, I try to make some kind of mood music.
VALIDATED: You’ve made a name for yourself obviously, but for other producers and beat makers, how do you compete with that now? How do you stay relevant when beats are so cheap? A young artist on the come up that's buzzing might not know who you are, and they are going to go with the dude for $399.
CHARLEMAGNE: It’s tough and even I haven’t figured that one out, because if I did, you’ll see my name a little more. The thing with the $399 or $499 beats, they are not wack. I’m just being clear. I’m not saying they are wack. But I’ve heard some dope beats. And if you think about it… I remember I heard a story, just to put a pin in that for a second, was it, “In love with the Coco”? Yeah, I think it was, “In love with the Coco”. The dude sold the beat to OT Genesis for $200. And when I say sold the beat, all the rights, everything. That song goes on to be platinum, guess what? He gets nothing out of it. OT Genesis owns the whole thing.
And I heard that story from Jermaine Dupri talking about it, that’s what I mean when I see a $299 guy. So, if you do that to yourself, just know that that could be the outcome. I just let this dude get away with nothing like you gave it away for nothing but if you are publishing, you keep some things, so that way if the song does blow up, you get something back. And people recognize that you did the beat. And maybe they come back to you for more.
All I can say is to be consistent and have more than one… how they say? Don’t be a one hit wonder. Don’t think that this one beat is going to change your life. If this one beat goes, I got another one. Especially if you have ideas, if you have ideas, you’re good. For instance, like Jay Z, he did the “Ain’t No Nigga” featuring Foxy Brown and I think it was on the “Nutty Professor” soundtrack. I think those people wanted all the publishing, I don’t think they cleared it or whatever.
But the thing is they’re going to be like, “You know what, take that because I know I’ve got more hits.” You’ve got to have in your mind that “That’s not my only beat.” and also protect yourself on the other hand, like, fine, maybe you get nothing, maybe you get $100 for the track, but make sure that they know you get the paperwork. I know artists can be funny about that, suddenly you ask for paperwork then it’s funny, but that’s the way to protect yourself, like at least let me get something on the back end if that so happens to jump off and start streaming numbers crazy, alright my man over here did it and Innocent? did it, but he needs that paperwork, man you got to cut him that check from DistroKid or other one, there’s two or three of them that’s out there, TuneCore, DistroKid, a lot of independent…
VALIDATED: CD Baby.
CHARLEMAGNE: Right, you can go through all of those but once the paperwork is right, and once that joint blows up…
VALIDATED: How does an artist with bars but no budget get a beat from a producer like you?
CHARLEMAGNE: The same way, though. You got to impress me. Let me see your work ethic. I will give you a perfect example. I remember a dude, even at my height, came to me and he said, he wants a beat or whatever. So, I’m like, “Cool.” At that level you have A beats, B beats whatever you think, even though I can’t say that, because you never know your B list might be like, “Oh snap this joint is hot.” So, I gave him a beat, but just to see his work ethic. So, he took it and on his own, he was out there doing shows, he was pushing, he said my name in every interview, pushing it crazy. Next thing I know the dude is out here right now, he’s doing big stuff in Germany or something, he’s out here doing it big.
I’m so proud of that dude because it is not like he came to me and gave him a beat, and he is sitting in his house. It doesn’t work like that, you got to be out there pushing it, you got to market it. There’s a lot of other things you got to do. Getting a beat from me is just one aspect of it. That don’t mean anything. And again, my name might ring a bell, it’s a little crazy out, a little nuts, you’ve got to just...
Like I said, you gotta show anybody, any producer, not only me, Pete Rock or Primo or whoever. If they throw you a bone, you got to show them, “I’ll do the legwork. I’m going to show you that I deserve the shot you took on me.” And after that, I’m sure he’ll tell you something else, if he sees that this dude is on his game.
And right now, I don’t think the game is open like that, I think the best thing for an up and coming producer to do is to find somebody just like I did. That’s how I came up. I found my own group of guys, put my own records out. Because I knew no one is going to give me a shot like that, you gotta keep being consistent throwing stuff out. And people like, “Oh, snap, all right. I want to get something from this dude over here.” And that’s how it went.
VALIDATED: What do you think about the current state of Hip Hop?
CHARLEMAGNE: I think Hip Hop is starting to get back to a place where it needs to be, if you ask me. Because remember, there was no Griselda a little while ago. And I saw these new dudes from Cali, Coast Contra.” I’m very impressed by them.
VALIDATED: Yeah, I’ve been listening to them. They’re dope.
CHARLEMAGNE: They have a snippet out there, and it is dope. They give me the “Leaders of the New School” vibe, like a “A Tribe Called Quest” vibe. Yeah, there is all this other stuff. But there’s still real Hip Hop out here, man, you just got to search. Again, I’m sure they didn’t just come up just like that, they had to do probably a thousand shows, talk to a thousand people and try to make it on their own. So, it’s little connects here and there. But if you think about it really, it is not Hip Hop that is dying, it’s the corporate structure that’s pushing that other Hip Hop in your ear.
Because back then, we had a variety, and that’s what I liked about Hip Hop, you had your The Roots, you had your Public Enemy. You had Ice Cube, you had KRS One. You got Big Daddy Kane, you had NWA, different varieties of rap. If you want positivity, you can find it, X-Clan, you can find whatever you want. But now it is about money. There’s a whole different vibe and everybody thinks that they can rap.
And that’s not what the situation is. Rap used to be something special. Everybody is jumping in now and that’s not it. It’s tough, but you got to stand your ground if that’s what you believe in, that's what you believe in. So, it is what it is. Call me a purist, call me a old head, call me a hater. It is what it is. That’s what I grew up on and that’s what it's going to be. I try my best not to be that old man, but that’s just not my thing.
VALIDATED: I think to a certain extent you can’t help but be that way if you experienced the original.
CHARLEMAGNE: I know, but it’s hard.
VALIDATED: It’s like the LeBron and Jordan comparison. You just can’t do it.
CHARLEMAGNE: Yeah, exactly, I know, but I’m going to give you another example because even growing up and I was doing rap, I’m West Indian, my parents were like, “What the hell is this?” I’m trying not to do the same thing they did to me with these new guys but I’m like, that’s really not my thing. Okay, you know, I DJ in strip clubs, so I know Turn Up music and that belongs right there. I’m not mad at that.
My point when I say stuff like that is, imagine me listening to a whole album of that, that’s not going to happen. You telling me your whole album is just Turn Up? There’s not one time where you loved your mother? One time when you see some stuff going on you want to talk about? There’s not one time you want to uplift your people? I’m not saying your album got to be about that but life is more than just Turn Up and pills.
VALIDATED: I get that.
CHARLEMAGNE: The Drill is the crazy one because now it’s not even national. You know what I mean by that? The Drill is local because it’s like blocks fighting each other and putting out songs. How is the song talking about your opps on Fordham Road going to go outside the United States when they aren’t going to know what the hell you’re talking about? That doesn’t even make any sense. So, you make music for a little radius right here that’s it, they don’t even make it right. “Oh, my man in Tracy Towers, I shot him up boom.” How does that even translate to a bigger audience?
VALIDATED: I look for the Rakims and the Kool G Raps to put out music because when I get in my car right now, I’m basically listening to those old albums anyway. Not to take nothing away from nobody, but there is not much out that I like.
CHARLEMAGNE: I got you but just let me explain that real quick because this is the mistake that a lot of people made and not my peers, I don’t even consider myself in their realm or whatever. My thing is like there’s a whole crowd like us, me and you, who wants that new music from that crowd, from Rakim, from Big Daddy Kane. But they act like they’re not going to sell. You know, like how they have contemporary R&B, there’s some people that want to hear that, so there is a need to have those stations.
I want to hear new Rakim, I want to hear new Big Daddy Kane, new G Rap. So, I don’t know what the situation is as far as putting out stuff, but like you said, it’s a new day and age if you really want to put something out, you can put something out. You guys are legends, I don’t think dudes are going to turn you down for a track, if Rakim asks Primo for a track I don’t think he is going to say no. But put out new music man, there is a whole audience waiting.
VALIDATED: It is also like you said, though, you got to put the other work out. There is no money for budgets. So, there’s no promotion money, so it makes it hard too.
CHARLEMAGNE: That’s work, just like the people who think… you ever see those get rich schemes on a thing. You can do this, you can turn this to that or real estate schemes. The funny thing is that those do work. But you got to put it in the work. It is not that I'm going to put in $100 and sit around and $10K is going to come to me. No, you got to do some actual work. And then when that doesn’t work, you are like oh, they jerk me or whatever. No, it’s a lot of work. Or you can just flip houses. Yeah, you can, but it takes a lot of work. There’s a lot of legwork involved with it.
So, let’s not try that, “Oh, yeah, I just put my money and I came here flipped eight houses. I did five apartments.” And if you think about it now, what I see now though, which is even worse… not worse, but I always study the game and look at what’s going on, it seems now there is more money in teaching the course than actually doing it. They’re on here telling you, “I’m going to teach you now in seven steps how to…” You know what I mean?
VALIDATED: Yes.
CHARLEMAGNE: And there will be stupid ones clicking on this: “Here’s seven steps to get you $100,000 in the next five days. Step one…” Like, really? You got me clickbait, let me see…
VALIDATED: So, you also have done some work with soundtracks. What can you tell us about that?
CHARLEMAGNE: That was pure luck as far as that situation. I was just working with Cam’ron and then Def Jam happened to want to do a Scarface soundtrack for some kind of anniversary. It was the 25th anniversary or something like that. It was just obvious, they’d have the Yeyo song. Why don’t we make a song out of that? “Rush, rush get the Yeyo” I was like, “Let’s do that.” So, I flipped that. Have my girls sing the hook, my girl Elaine, who is a big Reggae artist now. She sang the hook. And I just gave it to Cam’ron. And that was it on that one. As far as the Black Match thing, it was just Natural Elements, being with Tommy Boy, Tommy was in charge of that soundtrack. We already had that song ready to go. We just never put out the album. So, we just picked that song out of the album, just to throw it on there.
VALIDATED: That’s dope. So, what are you working on currently?
CHARLEMAGNE: Currently, because I did it before I’m doing it again. Finding artists and trying to do my own thing. Still trying to move beats, I’m in touch with a few people, younger and older people. But again, you see how I am, I don’t have to be in a room, I don’t feel like I got to “Yo yo yo”, I don’t do all that. Here’s the music, fuck with it or don’t. And I'm not like, you can’t tell me no you don’t like it. I know a lot of people are sensitive about their work. I get it, if you don’t like the track, that’s not for you, I get it so let’s just keep working until you find something from me or maybe my sound isn’t for you. I will send another one.
If about five tracks in and you’re like, that’s not my thing. Cool, find another sound, I have no problem with that. Like I said, music is subjective, so my stuff might not be your thing. You like the other guy’s beats. No problem. That’s the way the world works.
VALIDATED: Are there any up-and-coming producers that you’re aware of, that you rock with their song?
CHARLEMAGNE: The funny thing is I was watching these dudes, I forgot their names. They had a producer show on IG. KelC and all these other dudes. There’s a lot of up-and-coming producers I hear that’s dope. And I’m amazed because I’m like I thought we are a dying breed but like I said, I think Hip Hop is in good hands. There’s a lot of people out here who are dope, with a lot of dope sounds.
Tyrese had this guy, he was dope. And I remember one time he was like, “I put my producer up against anybody.” A dude named Siege Monstrosity, a dude named Soundtrack I heard out of there, Black Heart. Trying to remember all their names. I can’t remember all their names, but it’s a group of them, a collective of them. Dude, KelC, he does… He does stuff with Ski Beatz. And let’s not forget, we are still out here. Even people like Ski Beatz. Like you said, there’s a lot of people who don’t get their credit. I think Ski Beatz is one because he was responsible for Jay Z’s whole meteoric rise because without him, “Reasonable Doubt” don’t get made. He had probably got like six or seven tracks on it.
VALIDATED: That whole album was a crazy sound.
CHARLEMAGNE: That’s what I’m saying. So, if I remember correctly, Ski Beatz, Primo, Clark Kent, that was about it. Right? Because Ski Beatz did the majority of that album.
VALIDATED: So, what’s your social media contact?
CHARLEMAGNE: Well, just get at me @realcharlemagne. Get at me over there, we’ll see what’s popping.
VALIDATED: Any last words for the people?
CHARLEMAGNE: Yo, man, enjoy life, man. Live life, love, laugh, man, make things happen. That’s it.