THE TALK DIFFERENT: NINE

BRONX, NEW YORK | NINE

Interview Terrell “ReaLife” Black

Validated sits down with Bronx, pioneer emcee Nine for an in depth conversation. We discuss everything from him witnessing the creation of hip hop culture  happening just outside his grandmother's window in the Bronx to working with Funkmaster Flex early on in their careers, from Nine’s debut classic solo album “Nine Livez” dropping in 1995 and the success of singles like “Whutcha Want” and “Any Emcee” to his most recent 2018 album “King” fully produced by the Snowgoons. With a brash delivery and witty wordplay Nine makes grown man music that holds no punches and that the streets can relate to and any hip hop head can appreciate.

We also get into Nine’s new music, “OOPS Vol. 3” coming soon, as well as his book in the works and much, much more. If you’re a true fan of hip hop culture and the boom bap era you recognize when it comes to the Bronx emcee that the talk different. 

“You want to add to the culture, you don’t want to steal from it. You’ve got to study your craft, you‘ve got to change your cadence a little, you’ve got to flip the way you flow, your scheming and everything has to change. I put the work in.” - Nine

VALIDATED: For the people who don’t know, let them know who you are.

NINE: Best way to describe it is I’m a dude who has been here for a long time, I’m a soldier in this Hip Hop culture, a part of this culture, but you would know me as Nine, with songs like, “Whutcha Want” “Lyin’ King” and “Any Emcee”, “Redrum”, “Make or Take”. You know, I had a nice little run in the 90s, I was on the worst label in the world. But, you know, I went through a lot of things to continue to be here and be a part of this culture, you know, and I know a lot of you are probably like, “What part?” But it’s like you have to understand just because you don’t see it happening doesn’t mean it’s not happening. There are ways and moves we make out here to keep yourself doing what you love to do. So, I’ve been blessed enough to do that.

 VALIDATED: So, being from the Bronx, what’s your earliest memory of Hip Hop culture?

NINE: Like I said, I’m what you call “BHH,” Before Hip Hop, I was 11 years old when hip hop came out. I was in the window watching the dudes in the park with the breakdancing and all, so I’ve seen this thing from its inception, to the point where we are now. I’m like to Alex Trebek “Jeopardy” nigga of this shit. You asked a question, I’ve seen it, I was there, I watched it, I know some of the people that are superstars or legendary icons just because I lived in the neighborhoods that they lived in. You know, so when it comes to hip hop, like I said, this is a culture that was created when I was 11 years old.

VALIDATED: For those who didn’t witness it firsthand, what was it like just seeing that whole Hip Hop thing come to life?

NINE: It was unbelievable, because I tell people all the time, I lived in Webster projects on 170th Street, Webster Avenue, Claremont Village, right down the block from 169th Street, they called it “The 9”, that was like the toughest block no 169th, I lived right there, and there was a park there, and during this time, Blacks and Puerto Ricans were at war. I tell people all the time, they didn’t hang together, they didn’t fuck with each other. So, this particular time when hip hop music came out, just as a young man, I noticed there was a whole lot of Hispanic brothers, Puerto Rican brothers in the park, and a whole lot of Black brothers, but nobody was fighting, which was super unusual. Then I see him disappear and pop back up in the air, they were breakdance battling in the park with Apache playing and a guy going, “1, 2, y’all, y’all, y’all.” So, that’s the first thing I saw. That was my introduction to it, it was like, why was the Puerto Ricans in this park right now with all these Black people? You know what I’m saying? Because it’s going to pop off, but it didn’t pop off.

VALIDATED: So, it was actually unifying us?

NINE: They were dancing together, they were chilling together. So, then I was stuck, I wanted to know what that was and why this guy had his record player outside. I asked my grandmother, “Why he got his record playing outside?” She was like, “Close the window, that’s noise, we don’t want to hear that.” and I was like, “I don’t know what you are talking about but I can’t move from this spot.” So, I sat in my window and watch this thing go on all night. And then once every other week, guys would come out… I just watched it grow from there, to the point where as I got older, you’ve got mc’s, you have rappers, you had Cold Crush Four, Fantastic Five, Busy Bee, Kool Moe Dee, Melle Mel... like these names started becoming legendary in the neighborhood. Like, these were our stars. I didn’t listen to no other music after that, like we tried to get a cassette tape of whatever was going on. And to be honest, I can’t remember anything else in my life after that, like everything at one point in time even being in school had to do with hip hop or music or who’s the best rapper, even before it became commercialized. It was just a part of our life. We didn’t have a culture as a people and we created one.

VALIDATED: You mentioned how it was before it got commercialized. What was the major shift that you saw in the beginning when it first started to get commercialized?

NINE: Well, the biggest thing is… and I’m glad my big brother Melle Mel said this on Vlad, the Sugarhill Gang record came out and changed everything but that record was trash to us, to everybody. We was like, “Yo, who are these dudes and they are wack.” It was crazy, I’m gonna be honest. Nobody…  Big Bang Hank was saying – rest in peace to him, but he was saying Grandmaster Caz’s rhymes. And we all knew the rhymes because we had it on tape, and we were like, “What is this foolishness?”

So it was from the beginning of hip hop, it was fuckery when it met commercialism, when it met the industry, it started off with fuckery because that was the wackiest group, the wack record, the wackiest shit and it took off in front of the world. And we watched that happen, and here we are today, where fuckery still runs shit. The wackest shit, bullshit is bullshit and it’s still the shit that people want. You know, let’s not pretend there wasn’t garbage in the 90’s and garbage in the 2000’s and garbage always reigns. I mean, you know, we got Vanilla Ice… I’m not trying to disrespect but MC Hammer was terrible on the mic to me, but he’s so important to hip hop. I respect him and I admire him, and now that I’m older, I understand the important part that he played. But I’m just saying during the time, it was like, the worst shit is what everybody’s hearing.

So, it’s been an uphill fight from the door, so I’m trying to tell these older cats that’s in my era that still have a love for the music, that this is nothing new that we’re facing, it’s always been whack shit that get the most attention. So, during that time, Sugarhill Gang came out and then everybody started making records and then Melle Mel did “The Message”, and then everything was just different, no more park jams, no more outsides type of stuff, you had to pay to get into the club to see these artists perform, which was only right, you know, they earned that. So, that was a big change and everything and then it got serious, like “Oh, so we can make records?” Everybody just wanted to make a record, nobody thought you was going to be like “Earth Wind and Fire”. Niggas, didn’t think they were going to be “The Commodores” or be stars, it was just, “I want to make a rap record. I want to make one because everybody else is making one. I can rap, I want to make one.” So, that’s how it started for me, I just wanted to make a record.

VALIDATED: Your rap name, Nine, what’s the importance of the number nine to you personally?

NINE: Well, I mean, I was actually born in 1969 on the 19th day, my mother used to say I was nine pounds, she used to make a joke out of it. I was watching “The Omen” one time with her when I was younger, about the three sixes in the back of somebody's head. She said, “Well, you should have three nines in your head.” But it wasn’t a name that I wanted to pick to be a rapper, I was Ricochet when I was with Deuces Wild, it was a different thing, but then when I decided to go solo, and it was I wanted a name that was so different than anybody else because I come from the school taught by Andrea Harrell, that everything you do got to be original, you’ve got to be new, you’ve got to be fresh, you’ve got to be yourself… rest in peace Andre, he was very important in my life, as far as you know, and the fact that he never put me on was even better because when he did tell me I needed to go on my own and find myself, I ended up doing it. 

Now, at the right time, he told me, “I can’t mess with you.”, but he taught me a lot of things. But the name Nine, was “Nine Double M” first, which I still use but that was a gun thing. I was a knucklehead at the time, running around the streets of the Bronx caught up in the Reagan era, the crack era, everybody trying to make money, hustling, I was out there with them doing all that stupidness. We didn’t rap about it because that was like confessing to crimes to us. So, I got that name in a couple places... “Yo, you got the Nine Double M?”, because I always had it on me. I was a skinny dude, I’m not a big guy now, a buck eighty something, but back in the day, I was a little skinny dude, but I had a lot of heart and a big mouth. So, I used to keep them, once I discovered the power. Like Nas said “I gave you power.” I had it on me, so a lot of people really didn’t want to get into any confrontation with me because I was known for having that nine double m.

VALIDATED: You kind of already went over how you got your start as an artist but at what point did you decide to pursue it professionally?

NINE: Well, I mean, it was always professional to me, it just became that way. Like, when I joined the group and then Andre managed me, he’s Dr. Jekyll, he’s the star, he has got the label, I’m like, “So, I’m in it now.” And then we got with Chuck Chillout, who lived next door to one of my partners. We was with both of them, and Chuck said “Yeah, you’ve got to make a choice.” So, we chose to roll with Chuck and we were trying to get on from that point on. We were with Chuck, he was managing us, you know, back in the day what you would call managing, but we got to see everything. I owe a lot to him and I’m working with Chuck again. We’ve got a song coming out together, it’s going to bug people out.

But I met Flex, he was, I think, just DJ Funkmaster. He was a friend of a guy I knew that was dj’ing, so I heard him cutting one night and I was like, “Yo, I need a dj for my group. You want to get down with us?” I said, “We are down with Chuck Chillout.” He’s like, “Word?” I took him to the studio the next day and we made that Deuces Def promo record for Chuck’s radio show. And Chuck started liking Flex and we chased behind him for about three or four years. Carrying his records, paying… that’s why when people say paying dues, they have no idea.

VALIDATED: Yeah, you were carrying crates, yeah, you were paying dues.

Nine: There was no YouTube, we carried records and we want to be around and he’s like, “Y’all got to learn”, but he was honest to us, it wasn’t good enough then, trying to get anything. “You are not good enough”, he kept it real but he kept us around him, he was like big brother to us and stuff. So, eventually Flex started to move into slots where he was actually dj’ing for Chuck on the radio at times and they got the show together. Flex is a very smart dude, so he chose to… At the time me and him, we went solo together, it was supposed to be me and him and we did the “Six Million Ways to Die” song, it came out on Nervous Record, you remember that record?

VALIDATED: Yeah.

Nine: So, that was a Funkmaster Flex instrumental but I had gotten into some trouble, got locked up, did a little different shit, and my voice started developing, and I used to sing these Reggae records and this dude said, “Yo, you should do that when you rap, Yankee style.” He said, “When you do the Jamaican shit, you’d be like, going in. Then when you do your shit, you be like, yeah, yes, y’all.” So, I mixed the two, once I figured it out, Flex is like, “Yo, I got this instrumental, but I think the people need to hear your voice, and everything you’re doing is crazy, let’s do it.” So, I went to the studio that night, I wrote it right there on the spot, we did “Six Million Ways to Die”.

 We had actually Tragedy Khadafi, was on the original record, but his label was bugging out, so they didn’t let him be on it. So I ended up doing the whole song. And me and Flex, we started drifting off into different directions as people, you know what I mean, just what I like and what he liked, like he played that “Come On Baby”, remember that shit he put out? That was supposed to be my next single, I was like, “Nigga, you buggin’.” He was like, “You don’t understand.” and I’m like, “I brought you in, how you going to...” and he’s like “You don’t understand, I’m on the radio, I know what works, I be in these clubs. You should rap off this.” and it started getting stupid. So he was seeing a lot of success in being on the radio and making moves and stuff. So, no bad mouth to him, but we met doing hip hop, it’s not like we grew up being the best buddies. A lot of people think that, it’s like, no, we met because of hip hop. And when the time ran out, it ran out and I moved on.

VALIDATED: It was a business relationship?

NINE: Yeah, I mean, we were friends, we were boys. I mean, I would like to think that. I mean, we were close, we were all a crew, we’ve been through a lot of stuff together outside of music and stuff, but I mean, I’m just trying to speak from maybe what his perspective might have been. Once he got where he wanted to be, it was like… Yo, you know. People talk about rappers all the time like, “He ain’t that nice, I need to move on, I want to be… I don’t know whatever but it happened and then I was so fueled by it that I was able to actually sit… because I had the Profile deal before I even made the “Whutcha Want” song, I had a deal. They were the only label that would sign me that wasn’t afraid of him. Because a lot of labels like Loud and different people, they were interested in us but once it was I’m not with Flex no more, they was like, “You know you're his rapper. I don’t want to mess with you and make enemies with him.” You know, he had a lot of power. And I’m like, “I ain’t his rapper, I bought him in.” They was like, “Well, listen, he’s on the radio, he gets pissed with me...” I was hearing a lot of stuff. So, Profile wasn’t afraid, so I went with them and I came with the song, and the rest, I think a lot of people know.

VALIDATED: You mentioned the “Fallen'' record, with the single “Six Million Ways to Die”, what was the response to that project?

NINE: Oh, nah, it was cuckoo, nobody never heard a voice like that, I was “Pop goes the gat, I get over like a fat rat, Funkmaster Flex and Nine Double M, mad fat skills on the table and the mic, with that.” Niggas was like, “Oh my god!” Labels was like, “Ahh!” spit falling out of their mouth. They was like “Yo, who sounds like that?” I introduced that sound. That’s why a lot of people, I like to clear that DMX shit up, because I’m a fan, I like X. I know he borrowed, I know he took but that’s what hip hop is. He realized that he could reach that same resonation in his voice that I could, and he ran with it, because if you listen to… he did a freestyle off “Any Emcee” and he ain’t sound like that, he sound like Sticky, he sound like that. But he realized something and he ran with it. I’m never going to be angry at something like that. I always tell people, it’s different, we are two different types of people, it’s different. I don’t know if people are aware of the URL battle league, rap league, I was like, I would love to settle it on Smack. We might get a mill, we can stand three rounds face to face because it’s been haunting me, it has never affected his career or anything, but you have no idea how many times I had to hear that DMX shit, DMX shit, DMX shit, you know?

I’m in Ikea with my wife, we shopping, this dude is like, “Yo, what up, you Nine, right?” I’m like, “Yeah,” he said, “Yo, that nigga DMX took your style.” It got to the point where I stopped even saying I was Nine. Niggas was like, “You Nine, right?” I was like “Nah.” I cut my hair, I was like “Nah.” “You look like that nigga.” I said, “Word?” Because I ain’t want to hear the DMX, DMX, you know what I’m saying? So, it haunted me in a different way than it affected him, but the label fell apart. Profile Records fell apart, they held us. Me, Smoothe Da Hustler and Camp Lo, they held us for four years waiting for a lawsuit with Arista. I don’t know what that situation was with Arista, but by the time I got to Arista in 2001, the guy who wanted us wasn’t even working there no more. They bought Profile and they bought our contracts. So, they gave me a little money to do a little album demo, I gave them a bunch of old songs. They said you sound like DMX, the same old dumb shit. I was free from that point, I didn’t even know if I wanted to still continue doing this at one point. I say from 2003 to 2005 was just dark years, I didn’t write nothing. And I realized that was the best thing I could have done because I let go of all the things I learned and had to relearn everything again.

VALIDATED: So, the DMX comparison has been going on for a while evidently?

NINE: Well you know the labels, when I was shopping because I was still doing things the old school way, this was before the internet, we would still shopping… After I got free from the Arista situation, I was shopping for a deal. You know I was trying to get a record deal and everybody I went to and played records, said, “Oh, I like it, you sound like DMX, he’s triple platinum, it’s too late, it’s over.” That’s what I was being told.

VALIDATED: I guess I could see the comparison, but it’s not the same, like the styles are not the same, the flows are not the same.

NINE: That’s because you really are a hip hop dude, we talking about some industry dude.

VALIDATED: You’re from that era where you wanted to stand out, you wanted to be original.

NINE: You want to add to the culture, you don’t want to steal from it. I understand at this point in my life the importance of what it is you say. Life i’m not under any delusions, I can’t sit around yacking about dumb shit. I’m a grown man, I done seen so much, there's so much I got to talk about. I can’t wait to share this with the world. So I'm going to show them how a 51 year old supposed to rap and still be nice. You’ve got to study your craft, you‘ve got to change your cadence a little, you’ve got to flip the way you flow, your scheming and everything has to change. I put the work in. This is why I’m able to, you know, I’m going to talk this, but like I said, I’ve got a song with Chuck Chillout coming out called “The Talk Different”. I’ve got a song with Planet Asia, Pacewon and myself called “Dangerous on the Ave”. It’s insanity, I’m rapping with dudes that I was… I got a song Conway the Machine on my last in album 2018, called “Belafonte”. And this is before people was up on Conway, before they was up on Griselda. I knew that dude was special and I wanted to test myself. I’m proud, the song is crazy.

He ain’t body me, you know, you learn, steel sharpens steel, you get with those dudes, and if you have a love for this shit, because I’ve been doing this so long, by the time I put out “Whutcha Want”, I had been through like eight different transitions and styles. When Rakim and them was out, we were just trying to make records to sound like them, not like them, but in that genre, I had to rap in that cadence. So, I’ve been transforming myself and doing this forever, and then I realized there’s no rush. A lot of dudes put out a lot of products and it’d be garbage. And it affects you when you finally do figure it out. That’s why I’ve always took my time, I was like, I don’t have to put out music to work on music till I get to the point where I know it’s ready. You know what I mean? Because I’ve got my publishing, I’ve got ownership and stuff, I’ve got merchandise, I’ve sell hard copies. It’s better than the post office. Whenever somebody come up to me and talk about they want to rap, I’m like, “Yo, if whatever you doing, you are making more money than you would if you were working at the post office, keep going. If not, you might have to stop.”

VALIDATED: Yeah, that makes sense.

NINE: If it is better than the post office, then you’re good.

VALIDATED: Yeah, that is a whole different perspective.

NINE: I come from a different place. I look at music different but I just hear shit different too. I don’t listen to the hoopla, all the dumb shit that, you know. My heart got broke so many times, like when you really look at somebody you think that they’re this. I got to meet a lot of these dudes. I got to tour with dudes and see how they really behave and the character of men they are, and it’s like, sometimes it’s disappointing because now I can’t really like the music. I wish I never met you, because I could have kept liking your music, but now that I met you, I see that you are a bitch ass nigga. I can’t even listen to your shit no more. You know what I mean, this social media has fucked us up, we judge people instead of just listening to the art. I don’t care if he’s really a tough guy. I don’t care if Rick Ross really sold drugs, Rick Ross makes dope records. I don’t care if he was a fucking CO. I don’t care. Luther Vandross was homosexual, does that make me not think his records was beautiful?

VALIDATED: So, you touched on releasing the album, “Nine Lives”, on Profile, but that was like 1995, it included singles like, “Whutcha Want” and “Any Emcee”, what was your reaction to the success of the album, being that was your solo album?

NINE: Right. Well, to be honest with you, and not to sound cocky, when we recorded, “Whutcha Want”, and mixed it, we knew we had something that was going to break through without promotion, because I had to go the hard route. I ain’t have the promotion. The video for “Whutcha Want” cost $15,000. At the time, videos were, $80,000, $75,000, you know what I mean? We met some kids that was in school and we came up with the idea. I was like, “Yo, get me a Jeep, and a dark-skinned girl.” I wanted to use a dark skinned female because of what I was seeing, I was always seeing the light skin girls. I was like, “Yo, I want a dark skinned African looking girl driving the jeep and we’re just going to drive through Broadway all the way to Washington Square Park, and you’ll have film me in the jeep rapping,” because that’s all the money we had. So, I knew the record was going to bang as long as it got heard. All I needed was the opportunity. I knew it was a special record. It was a special beat. It was a special sound. So, we knew.

VALIDATED: I don’t think it was supposed to be done any other way though, that was perfect.

NINE: Right, but you know, I was dealing with a lot of guys who had all the promotion in the world, they had Mary J Blige on their hooks, they had a whole lot of, you know, you’ve got to look at that, you know, when you dealing with charts, it’s like, all these dudes got all these advantages. My only advantage is being super original, so I’ve got to keep it real, and I’ve got to make the best out of what was in front of me. Like, even “Any Emcee” record, I paid The Spinners a ridiculous amount of money to use the sample. I gave Rakim who’s worth every dime of it, like almost $5,000. At that time, that was crazy just for that sample, just for the “Any Emcee” you know, but I needed that. He was my hero, he was one of the people who made me throw rhyme books away.

Only two people ever made me throw all the rhyme books I had in my house away after I heard them, Rakim was the first guy. When I heard him, I threw every rhyme book I had a way, I had to start from the beginning. It was after I heard him, it was like everything I have is not even close. And then Biggie did that to all of us. I was in that time with Biggie, it was like, “Oh my God, this dude is…” I wish I had more time to study because it’s not about biting him, it’s about learning, from what he’s doing, the chorus’s he is making, the different things he’s introducing to the game. And I threw a bunch of books away after hearing him, those are the only two people ever that make me say I got to do this over. Everybody came up before Biggie and Rakim, these two people are the only two people I could say this about. I was like, where did he hear that, because everyone else heard something before and enhanced it or added their flavor.

VALIDATED: You mean like how did they get that style?

NINE: Right. When I heard Rakim, I was like, “Yo, where the fuck did this guy come from?” “I came in the door, I said it before…”, there was nothing like that before that. He is an architect. He’s the archetype, not the prototype, he brought something that no one ever heard. When Biggie came out it was like left turn after left. I never heard anything like that in my life, because I didn’t hear it before. He added something that was totally a game changer. And those are the only two people. To this day, everybody’s still Biggie to me, everything you do. Rapping on commercial beats, but still like you said it didn’t matter what beat…

VALIDATED: That’s true.

NINE: I’ve got reasons for what I’m saying, and this is true. My shit all stems back to our culture as black people, this is our shit! I’m not going to let nobody take this away from us.

VALIDATED: We were talking earlier about you releasing new music. What can you tell us about that?

NINE: I put out a couple mixtapes years and years ago called “Oops”, it was “Oops Volume 1” and “Oops Volume 2”, that stands for “Over Other People’s Shit”. I take your record and I make it mine. So this is the third installment of that. I haven’t done one in over 10 years but in this one I’m actually taking these people’s music beats, stuff you would never think I would use and I’m acting like I never heard their record before in my life. I got the master copy, I’m making a whole new shit, so “Oops Volume 3, Over Other People’s Shit”. I got the Pacewon, Configure, Planet Asia record, that’s going to be on me and this kid, Configure’s project. I got a song with Chuck Chillout, we working on a few things. I did the promo record for Chuck Chillout’s new show which is on right now, 9 to 11 on Rock the Bells, my big brother is on Rock the Bells, so I’ve been working with him. Just a lot of shit. Everything’s going to just drop. I’m going to just continuously start to release stuff especially with this platform being on Rock the Bells and you know working with Chuck again.

I’ve finished the mixtape, I was holding it, I’m trying to make sure it gets heard, because the main thing with our struggle as artists my age or people who might say you’re not relevant or whatever they want to say about you, the thing is about getting it heard, even getting blogs to pick it up, the proper blogs to give you the attention. I’m nobody’s favorite in the industry. Some of these dudes take a shit on Instagram and they post it on every site. I put out music and this shit just goes right past their head, like fuck it, because the “King” album is amazing. If you haven’t heard it, go check out the “King” album produced by the Snowgoons, I got Kool G Rap on there, I got Conway the Machine, Chris Rivers, Rusty Juxx, Smoothe Da Hustler... it’s a crazy ass album. Every record is bananas, it’s a hardcore piece of art. We weren’t trying to make hooks and make songs for radio because we knew what we were dealing with. This was something for the fans that’s been riding with me. And I’ve got great response from it. Two years, it’s been out, you know, overseas, it’s a murderer, overseas a lot of things are different than they are here. As far as what music they appreciate, and what music they gravitate towards to. So a lot of artists… you know, so it’s a world, it’s not about your neighborhood or American radio or any of that, you know, and you can control this industry yourself, if you are on top of your business.

VALIDATED: You mentioned that the music is accepted in the pure form in other countries, why do you think that is?

NINE: Well, I think everything boils down to mentality. America’s mentality is off with the old, on to the new, keep impressing me until you don’t impress me no more. Because I could have sworn Nicki Minaj was every girl’s favorite about four years ago, and then comes a new girl and it’s like, y’all can’t let both of them live, so now she got to go. So, now you want to dog her and she’s finished. And so you know, that’s the American mentality. It’s just over there, they gravitate into the artist, they get into you, they get into what you do and the vibes that you bring, and they appreciate those vibes and they’re not looking at something like, he’s number one or he’s the number two, it’s about fitting a playlist. I just want one song on your playlist for the month. I don’t expect to consume your life. I want one of my records to be one of them joints that you’ve got listed when you working out or when you going to work. Just one of my joints come on, like “Yeah, I got to put this Nine shit on here. I’m going to put this shit on here and put this.” 

My playlist is crazy. I’ve got young dudes, old dudes, it is different moods. That’s the beauty of what music is supposed to be, but we in America, everything is competition. It’s not just music, acting, basketball… “Oh, he’s not the GOAT, he’s the GOAT.” And meanwhile, these people got millions and millions of dollars and they really don’t give a fuck what y’all are talking about. Rich people don’t even really… they’re not thinking about you saying who’s wack, whose this, you know, it’s some dumb shit, but America is what it is, and this mentality, especially with social media, you know what it is, they can’t wait… they want to see you rise and they want to see you fall.

VALIDATED: You’ve been around the game and hip hop, like you said since the beginning basically.

NINE: In ‘84, really, seriously, yeah.

VALIDATED: What piece of advice would you give to artists looking to come into the game at this point?

NINE: Patience. If you believe in yourself, you got all the patience in the world. It might not happen tomorrow, might not happen next week, it might take 10 years, but I would tell them patience. As far as how to move around now, I have no idea because this is a circus. I’ve never seen anything like this before. I’ve never seen anything where all you have to do is go online and disrespect other people, cause some controversy, get some clout and all of a sudden, you selling records that sound like shit. But people don’t care because it’s who you are. And that’s where we are, it is sad. This is the social engineering aspect of it. This craft isn’t respected anymore, especially being a rapper, it’s not respected anymore because it’s like anybody feels like they can do it. And it doesn’t matter what they say, you know, catch a phrase, say what you say, create some controversy, get some clout and you’re on your way, and that’s crazy.

VALIDATED: Yeah, I agree with that. I definitely think it is no longer about… at least mainstream, it’s no longer about talent.

NINE: I would tell a rapper, don’t just be a rapper, man, learn how to read music, learn how to play music, learn how to do this, learn how to write, learn how to market yourself, know how to brand, know how to do shirts, learn how to edit your own videos, like, learn how to do everything. We didn’t have the opportunities that they have with this internet, but with that comes a curse because it’s oversaturated. Everybody got a video, or you see a guy, you know, if you watch social media, you see rapper like Lil Something, like you said, “Rapper Little Something just got shot today,” and then you go look this guy up and he’s a guy who rap like twice in his friend’s party but he’s a rapper, because it is clickbait to say “Rapper murdered.”

Whether or not this person… to me, you’re not a rapper until you are an established artist, until you got publishing, until you own your name, until you got ASCAP and until you put out music that people have consumed financially, you don’t deserve the title of a rapper. You can’t just walk out your house with a camera, make a record in your neighborhood with everybody jumping around with no shirt on and now all of a sudden, you are a fucking artist. Like, nah, to me, you got to… But you don’t have to earn that no more, we had to earn that. You weren’t an artist until Ralph McDaniels played your shit. If your shit wasn’t on video music box or Kiss FM or BLS, you ain’t shit. It’s not like that no more.

VALIDATED: Being an mc yourself, that is true to the culture, which mc’s do you feel are carrying that torch right now for the culture?

NINE: I like a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, I got to be in a certain mood, like I said, I’m big Griselda fan, I fuck with that, that puts me in a certain mood but that’s only one mood I be in. so I want to hear that. I always fuck with Jay Cole, I think Cole is dope. Like I said, I really like Lil Baby. And this is probably going to get me in a whole lot of shit, I fuck with Drake, not going to lie, I fuck with Drake, I fuck with Drake’s music, I fuck with the songs, I like the songs. I think he makes great fucking songs. When I’m in a mood, I’m happy and hanging around certain people, I throw that shit in, boom, no problem. I think he’s dope, I think he can rap. I think he gets a bad… I don’t know what to call it, a bad stigma because he’s not a tough guy, he’s not a thug dude, but I ask people all the time, if you could sing and rap, wouldn’t you do both?

I would, like if I could sing, I would sing and rap, you would use your talent. So, I like his records, I like that last record he just put out, you know, I think he makes some really good songs. 

Then I have the whole list of Royce Da 5’9,” I fuck with his last album. I thought that “The Allegory” was dope, his last album. I’m a mood dude. I don’t listen to other artists, I’m going to be honest, the way I used to. No like when I went home with the Mobb Deep album, I played that shit like 10 times in a row type shit. Like, I don’t have anybody that I can do that with anymore. I don’t think anybody makes that kind of music I can listen to 10 records in a row, over and over. I listen to the album. I used to play certain people’s shit over and over and we know how we used to do in the 90’s. We used to catch something, you know. I listened to “Ready to Die”, “Life After Death”, the Biggie album at least 60 times within a month. Like every day I wake up and throw that shit on, press play, like brushing my teeth, doing my thing in the house, listen to the whole album, there’s no music like that no more.

VALIDATED: Speaking of that, what do you think about Nas finally winning, I believe, the Grammy after all this time.

NINE: Well, I think it was… I’m not going to say a sympathy Grammy because he should have gotten one, he should have got one. I think “Kings Disease'' was the Grammy album. I like that album. I think it was a dope album, because I know what it takes for somebody like him to go through these transitions. I think him and Hit-Boy was a dope combination, they made a really… it was his best album to me in a long time, maybe since “Stillmatic”. It was my favorite Nas album since “Stillmatic”, you know what I mean? So I think he deserved it. I’m glad he got it. I think it was a culmination of work that he’s done. I think this Grammy was for “Illmatic”, “It Was Written…”, “Stillmatic” and “Kings Disease”. I think it was a Grammy for all four of those albums for what he means to the culture. Because I thought the Freddie Gibbs album was album of the year. I thought Freddie Gibb’s album was better than Nas’s album, not that he’s a better rapper, I’m talking about the album.

VALIDATED: You were talking about the project...

NINE: I’m talking about project, that mood I was in listening to that. I thought that “Bandana” album was fucking insane, the music, the production, the vibe that those two guys, the producer and rapper was on. I thought that was the album. But I didn’t think he was going to win it over Nas, once I saw Nas, and Nas deserves it, you know, he is Nas. I just thought it was an album, the production… Like I said, he’s not a better rapper than Nas, but that’s even more opinionated, just coming from where I come from. Freddy is all over the place. I’ll say I enjoyed listening to Freddie’s rap in that album more than I enjoyed listening to Nas record.

VALIDATED: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’ve got a book coming out?

NINE: Yeah, I’m writing a book, man. I’ve got so many stories and so much shit that I’ve seen that it was like at this point, I have to tell the story. Some of the biggest people in this industry, I’ve crossed paths with everybody at one point in time. And the beauty of my story is I knew mother fuckers when they had nothing. So, I can’t tell you anything about P Diddy once he became Sean Combs, but I can tell you a whole bunch of shit when he was Puff Daddy, working the Muse and Flex was doing shows for him, and I’m carrying records and we around him and I’m seeing stuff like this, you know, I’ve got a different aspect towards everything, I’ve watched people become what they become.

VALIDATED: Seeing all of that, like you said, paying the dues carrying the crates, cats don’t even know what that is nowadays, going through the groups, figuring out who you were as an artist, using your voice, all of that, but still staying true to you. Like, what does all that taught you as far as artists?

NINE: Right. What it showed me is that I’m still here, I’m grateful that I kept working and kept studying. And like I said, when people hear this new music, they are going to understand I’m not play with, the pen is ridiculous, I'm at a super insane level now. But I had to get here my own way on my own path. I made a lot of mistakes. I made the wrong records at the wrong times. I was a terrible businessman. I had no idea what the fuck I was doing. I come from a school where we were relying on someone else, “You’re going to be my manager, you’ll take care of it.” I never clicked up with the right people. I never took opportunities to take a subservient role, just to advance myself, I was hardheaded, I made tons of mistakes, that’s why I’m in this situation I’m in now, why I never achieved what I was supposed to achieve, that was because of my own shortcomings and doings.

But like I said, I thank God or the universe that I was able to continue going where I still believe that I can make an impact and I can put out something that’s going to really make people go, “Wow, aight, he starting a whole new genre right now, this is grown man rap.” Because we never had this before. We never had grown man hip hop. We never had somebody who was rapping for niggas who pay mortgages, niggas who paid college student loans and trying to get the kids right. We never had nobody who’s nice talking about that. We had corny niggas trying to do it… We never had nobody with bars and wordplay and aggression to talk about the political system that’s going on here. I’m going at these dudes in a way, I’m going to go at the system, I’m going to go at everything in a truthful way. I have nothing to lose. I got no trepidations. I have nothing making me hesitate. I have no desires to be this or if I do that, I’ll never get on. I don’t give a fuck about none of that. So, my direction is different, my mind state is different. I just want people to… So, like I said, I’m going to make sure they get to hear it and then be able to judge it for itself because I hate when rappers or artists do interviews and it’d be like, “Oh, word man, I’m about to take over the game!” Nah, bro, but to talk different, that’s my slogan, “The talk different”. When you fuck with me now, you’re going to say “That nigga talk different.” You hear every record, the song I got with Chuck is called “The Talk Different”. So, it’s not going to be some shit that you heard, and you can relate, if you are over 35. I’m aiming for people 35 and up.

VALIDATED: Like you said, grown man rap.

NINE: Yeah, 35 and up, grown man hip hop but with all that shit you used to hear. And a lot of places you don’t think I could go, I’m going to take you there. I’m going to do one of these type beats to show these young dudes, yo, I love y’all. Young black men, how can I not love young black men? I might not agree with the content but how can I not love you? You are our future, what the fuck was I here for if the next two generations after me is going to be losers and failures? If I don’t love them, then what the fuck am I doing as a black man, as an OG, as a whatever? I’m just trying to find a place where we can both meet, and let me tell y’all I love y’all, let me tell you what I don’t like about you and let me tell you what we need to do so we can all be together and win the big fight, fuck the music fight. So that’s where my head is now, I’m just in a whole different place, my space, but I’m happy I’m in the place where I’m comfortable with myself, I’m doing good, paper right, you know what I mean, I’m fine.

VALIDATED: For the listeners, where can they support you on social media?

NINE: Right now, Instagram at @Ninemm. I don’t really do the Facebook shit because Facebook is kind of corny to me, that’s just like Myspace now, it is a bunch of people complaining about, what the fuck stuff going wrong with their life and shit. So, I don’t really fuck with that, but find me on Instagram, I will post everything I’m doing. I’m going to send you every direction I’m going in on that Instagram. I’m on that shit every day, it’s my favorite shit, that’s my only social media vice, I don’t even do Twitter.